New Rules for the 2011 Season

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D_Eclipse9916
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Re: New Rules for the 2011 Season

Post by D_Eclipse9916 »

I think we should stick w ith the +- 500LB format, and extend it down. A 1300LB car should definitely have a higher index than a 1800LB car. (christ my car is a few hundred lbs under 3x a caterham, :( That thing must be fun).

I say to determine points, he must submit his caterham to the top 5 index people at the next event. Im sure we can come up with something fair after running it a few times around :twisted: :lol:
edfooliu
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Car: 1998 Honda Civic EX Coupe
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Re: New Rules for the 2011 Season

Post by edfooliu »

As one of the caterham drivers at the last event, I'll agree that it needs to be penalized. Can't speak for Larry, but I know I wasn't maximizing the car, and my butt-dyno (not to be confused with The BD) says there was at least another full second out on course.

That said, the reason the 7 does so well in index is because it fits into a gap in the rules--a heretofore absent penalty for cars under 2000 lbs. If we proceed down this road of adding an index at 1500 (or whatever), this won't preclude anyone from sitting in the new gaps that creates. This is the problem with any formula-based rule set when the participants aren't _already_ fully developing their cars for that formula. There is always going to be a gap for which someone can optimize the hell out of their car for maximum performance at a minimum index multiplier and just crush face (and god help smallbore if someone ever decides to do a build specifically for that class).

Adding an index here will close this specific gap, but it doesn't preclude any others from existing. As a thought experiment, take AJ's civic from that event. He finished approx 1.3s behind Larry with approximately a 1.0 index (which makes this simple, since any change to his raw time directly affects his index). There are countless things he could do to his car without affecting his index... a Quaiffe, different gear ratios, more tire, drastic modifications to suspension to improve geometry and/or fit more tire, weight reduction + ballasting to redistribute mass... list goes on. You have to imagine he can get more than 1.3s with modifications like those, and that would propel him to the top of index for that event, above the caterham that folks seem to think is out of reach.

My point is that so long as index is based on an objective formula, one can always build a solution for that formula that'll dominate anyone who doesn't also develop their car based on the formula. You can mitigate this by adding more rules and more indexes to account for every part of the performance puzzle, but IMO you can't solve the problem without first compromising what I enjoy about the CDC index--its simplicity and casualness. In this one case, I absolutely agree with adding an index for 'superlights', but I'd strongly warn against thinking that this is the type of action you want to apply to every case where there appears to be an overdog car.

IMO if folks really want to take index seriously WRT 'fairness', that road leads down through the thick rulebooks of other organizations like the SCCA/NASA. If everyone wants that, fine, but my impression has been that folks hold near and dear the fact that CDC doesn't have a labyrinth of classing rules.
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FredK
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Re: New Rules for the 2011 Season

Post by FredK »

I don't think many, if any, develop their cars to max out the CDC index, Danny just brought his car out and let a bunch of people drive it. It didn't fit the current index system well.

I took V710's off the Miata and put on used nitto's last year so I could drive too events just for fun, it made me a little less competitive in smallbore, but was plenty fun.

The fast people know who the fast people are, just trying to be somewhat fair in the big pic.
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echan
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Re: New Rules for the 2011 Season

Post by echan »

We added a new index of 1.03 for cars under 1500 lbs. Jason updated the FAQ section and the reservation pull down choices for weight. Joe s is updating the barcode system.

I strongly recommend that everyone print out new bar codes for this year, as the format has changed from the first iteration (last version will still work provided that your car is over 1500 lbs. However, only the last version last year had a code for small bore). So to make it easier for everyone, just print out a new bar code when we post the new version.

Ed
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mla163
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Re: New Rules for the 2011 Season

Post by mla163 »

I don't think anyone has a fully built CDC index car yet. It could happen but there are so many variables it would be hard to pin down.

Try this:

150hp max. 400ft-lb torque
2501 lbs. 1000# of aero downforce
"street" tires - 315mm wide
Super LSD that defies the laws of physics
Double adjustable shocks tuned by Thor himself

...1.0 modifier
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