Informal Awards Lunch and the New Index System

[echan]

Come out and join us at Roy’s Place in Gaithersburg, MD on Saturday February 23rd at 1:30 pm to congratulate the 2007 awards winners and socialize with other autocrossers. Here’s their web site for the menu and directions:

http://www.roysplacerestaurant.com/


The 2007 winners are as follows:

First Place Overall Mike Moran (Trophy + Season Pass)
Second Place Overall Dan Rockholt (Trophy + 8 Free Passes)
Third Place Overall Jake Moran (Trophy + 4 Free Passes)
Fourth Place Overall Earnest Campana (Trophy + 2 Free Passes)
Fifth Place Overall Fred Kelly (Trophy + 1 Free Pass)

FTD François Bru (Trophy)
FTD Wade Chamberlain (Trophy)
FTD Pete G. (Trophy)
FTD Steven Henri (Trophy)
FTD Brain Karwan (Trophy)

New Organizer Fernando Puig
New Organizer Ed O’Donnell
New Organizer Denny Mitts
New Organizer Angie Mitts


New Index System

For the 2008 Season, CDC will be using a new index system to assign points. Points will be given based on an indexed time. We will no longer give points for raw time. As before, we will still drop the 4 lowest events.

The index will be the raw time multiplied with the following factors:

Tire Multiplier
Street Tires = 1.00
R-compounds = 1.03

Horsepower Multiplier
Below 150 HP = 1.00
150 HP to 250 HP = 1.01
251 HP to 350 HP = 1.02
Over 350 HP = 1.04

Vehicle Weight Multiplier
Vehicle weight less than 2000 lbs = 1.02
Vehicle weight 2001 to 2500 lbs = 1.01
Vehicle weight 2501 to 3500 lbs = 1.00
Vehicle weight over 3500 lbs = 0.99

One of our 2007 award winners voiced that our generous prizes create an atmosphere for people to “work” the system. He suggested that we consider lessoning the prizes to keep the atmosphere more friendly. So for 2008, our awards for the Indexed Points will be the following:

First Place Trophy + 4 free passes
Second Place Trophy + 2 free passes
Third Place Trophy + 1 free pass

Vintage Small Bore Spec Class

The CDC forum was filled many pages with everyone having different opinions. In theory the only way to take the car out of the equation is to have everyone drive the same car on the same day with the same weather conditions with the tires having the exact same condition. This situation is impossible.

The next best thing would be that everyone drives the same car. This scenario would place a huge duty on that car and it would probably break down before the first autocross. In addition, I don’t know anyone willing to pony up their car for 100 participants.

The next best thing after using the same car would be to have a spec class. In this spec class, we want it to be as affordable as possible. In addition, we’ve been thinking about a having a cheap race/autocross/rally series. In this series, we may be able to get our own grid at a track with some of the Vintage race clubs. However, we would have to be driving vintage cars.

So to help move towards the ability to have a cheap race/autocross/rally series and to have a heads up competition in autocross with no indexing, we will have a Vintage Small Bore Spec Class with the following cars:

MG Midget
Austin Healey Sprite
MGA
Vintage Mini
Triumph Spitfire

If you have a vintage car (1600 cc or under)to be included on the list, please let us know. In short, the cars have to carry the same engine that the model offered (does not have to be a numbers matching block), and normally aspirated. Everything else is wide open.

Points for this series will be given based on raw times only. As with the other series, we will drop the 4 lowest events. The end of year awards will be the following:

First Place Trophy + Season Pass (or possibly a Spridget if we can find one in our budget)
Second Place Trophy + 8 free passes
Third Place Trophy + 4 free pass
Forth Place Trophy + 2 free passes

If you plan to attend the lunch please RSVP by replying to this post so that we can get an accurate head count.
Ed

[kyle.bowker]

I'll be there.

[etherpool]

Vintage Small Bore Spec Class

So to help move towards the ability to have a cheap race/autocross/rally series and to have a heads up competition in autocross with no indexing, we will have a Vintage Small Bore Spec Class with the following cars:

MG Midget
Austin Healey Sprite
MGA
Vintage Mini
Triumph Spitfire

If you have a vintage car (1600 cc or under)to be included on the list, please let us know. In short, the cars have to carry the same engine that the model offered (does not have to be a numbers matching block), and normally aspirated. Everything else is wide open.

The changes sound like a good move. Regarding the Vintage Small Bore Class, what are you considering as Vintage? 19?? to 19?? Some consider cars built in the 80's to be classic or "vintage". That Midget killed me in my 83 GTI last year. Then again, my driving may have had sometihng to do with that!!

I can't wait for this season to get started!!!

[steve b]

I have the same question. What constitutes vintage? Does an 85 MR2 make the cut?

[echan]

I have the same question. What constitutes vintage? Does an 85 MR2 make the cut?

We will add cars to the list on a case by case request. Looking up the 85 MR2 specs, the normally aspirated 1.6L motor (115 HP) looks like it may fit but the supercharged version (145 HP) would be unfair.

[echan]

The changes sound like a good move. Regarding the Vintage Small Bore Class, what are you considering as Vintage? 19?? to 19?? Some consider cars built in the 80's to be classic or "vintage". That Midget killed me in my 83 GTI last year. Then again, my driving may have had sometihng to do with that!!

I can't wait for this season to get started!!!

The 83 GTI has a 1.8 L motor and would not qualify. We will add cars to the list on a case by case basis.

[konkilr]

I'll be there with my fiancee.

jake

[mla163]

I like the new system. A few questions:

Where is the line drawn between aggressive street tires and R-comps?

Is HP for crank or wheel?

[echan]

I like the new system. A few questions:

Where is the line drawn between aggressive street tires and R-comps?

Is HP for crank or wheel?

For the most part, any tire with a wear rating of 200 or below. Also I believe the new Bridgestone tire that is super soft after being shaved.

HP at the wheel.

[BugBomb]

I'll be there for the awards lunch. Jen can't make it since she is working.

I like the new system so far. It looks pretty simple. If I could make a suggestion, I had an idea to possibly make classing easier to remember using labels. For example, we could assign letters to the weight categories. Category A would be the lightest cars, and D would be the heaviest. Then the 2nd character could be numbers 1-4, 1 being the highest HP category and 4 being the lowest. Then for tire type, you just put an S or R at the end. So a stock Subaru Impreza WRX would be C3S, and you're average Cobra would be B1R. Theoretically, the fastest car would be class A1R, and the slowest would be D4S. Or maybe someone could come up with an even better way to label classes.

[bouchon]

Count me in. Valerie will not attend unfortunately.
Francois

[FredK]

My cobra will be a C2S or C2R, I think I've got some 210 rated tires around somewhere. Wades is a B1R. I'll be driving my Miata though.
FredK

[ProDarwin]

For the most part, any tire with a wear rating of 200 or below. Also I believe the new Bridgestone tire that is super soft after being shaved.

Ed, don't you think that is a little absurd? Pretty much the only autocross tire anyone uses that doesn't fall into that category is the Kumho MX.

Falken Azenis, Hankook Ventus RS2, Bridgestone RE01R, etc (all the SCCA Street tires) all fall into the same category as V710s and Hoosiers? The differences in grip are tremendous.

[mla163]

Maybe this thread needs to be split into two.

I think a 140 treadwear rating is the usual cutoff.

[ButtDyno]

HP at the wheel.

I'll bring my dyno

[echan]

Maybe this thread needs to be split into two.

I think a 140 treadwear rating is the usual cutoff.

I've been corrected 140 treadwear rating should be the cutoff.

[mla163]

Thanks Ed. I think this is agreeable.

[ProDarwin]

Thanks Ed!

[BugBomb]

I do have a concern about the HP multipliers, though. Everything seems to have smooth transitions from one category to the next, except when you get above 350WHP. Suddenly you are jumped 2 points instead of one. I can't think of many vehicles that participate with this club that break 350WHP. It seems like an excessive penalty to me since that extra power doesn't really help much on CDC courses.

I don't plan on being in that category at any point, I was just curious why the jump was larger than the others.

[ButtDyno]

Approximations of some known cars on an approximately 40 second course, and what "equal" would be in the new index system:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpos ... stcount=21

My MR2 would have to be 4 tenths off of the Suxass racing machine to tie. Pete's S2K and the Suxass-mobile would have to get roughly equal times, and those times would have to be equal to Fred's Cobra.

Let me know if I messed up the multipliers... this was just some quick math.

[FredK]

Anything over 300HP at CDC events only helps to entertain the spectators, it doesn't make anyone faster, right Wade?

[BugBomb]

Buttdyno, I like the chart. Some corrections, though:

-Brian's Civic weighs over 2,000 lbs (1.01 for weight)
-FredK's Cobra has more than 150HP at the wheels (1.02 for HP)

It would also be cool if you could sort them by Time, fastest first, and show another column with the difference from the fastest car on the list.

[steve b]

I'm a little out of the loop since I only made one event last season. When did the CDC become so worried about competition? The thing I liked about the CDC (and the reason I joined) was that it wasn't like the SCCA. It wasn't about building a car to the letter of the rules and it wasn't about winning.

I show up driving whatever I want, prepped however I like, and I autocross. I know full well if I've had a good day or bad day behind the wheel by comparing my times to a few other cars that I learned to use as benchmarks.

The fact that the club rewarded a few competitors at the end of the season was just a perk that was great if I got it and okay if I didn't (I never did). No matter how much you brainstorm an index system, it will always reward a certain car or a certain prep level. So then you start having separate classes. At that point, you might as well run with SCCA.

[FredK]

Steve,
I don't think we really care, we just don't want to be outsmarted by team Suxass again, plus it's winter we don't have anything better to do.
Fred

[ProDarwin]

I show up driving whatever I want, prepped however I like, and I autocross. I know full well if I've had a good day or bad day behind the wheel by comparing my times to a few other cars that I learned to use as benchmarks.

Nothing is preventing anyone from doing this with the new system. But for those of us that enjoy competition now have a much better system for comparison/gloating/trash talking/etc