Borrowing of a Ride for OCT 27/28 Event...

[DriftSS]

Been awhile since I have autocrossed and looking to dabble back in it...however I am in need of a current ride for either the October 27 or 28 AutoX. Anyone want an experienced autocrosser to help sort out and co-drive their car???? May pay your entrance fee if you wish. Used to running mainly RWD Camaros and Vettes, but will consider about anything at this point since my current two Camaros are out of commission (son's 91 1LE Camaro in rebuild stage awaiting new 600HP transplant and front end and my 99 SS Camaro in need of various repairs and tires to be autoxed again).

Thanks.
Stephen Catlin

[BugBomb]

There's a name I haven't seen in a while.

I wish I could offer you a drive in the Suxass, but it's down for at least the winter.

[DriftSS]

Thanks Mike. Sorry to hear about the Suxass.

It has been awhile since I did CDC events. Got bored with autocross (for at least the 2nd time since 1996) and started doing more track days and instructing at Summit Point, etc. Then got bored with that too (too fast and serious for the casual track day crowd and not enough time or the right equipment to join the full race crowd). Was content being a spectator and mechanic at Zack's drift events, but have that urge again to start up with autocross again... Unfortunately, my current daily driver pool consists of a 2010 4-banger Fusion, a 2002 Civic HX with 240k miles, and a 2004 Silverado. Not much in the way of wow factor...

May show up anyway just to hang out and ride along with my girlfriend, may just sign up with the Fusion and have a non-competitive fun day, or may attempt to borrow the SS from my son and limp it around w/o real tires and with a whiny rear end in need of pinion backlash adjustment.

Stephen

[FamilyTruckster]

I'd also offer my car, however I am waiting for some suspension parts, it needs an alignment, I corded a front hoosier at the last autox, and to top it all off I hurt the trans pretty bad on the last bowie event. At least I have a great excuse to do a t5 swap!

[DriftSS]

Thanks for the offer Mike... Remember your car well. Occassionally come across your footage of our red car at Bowie on YouTube (back when it was a more pristine and mello 305V8). Its clearly more battle scarred now as a dedicated drift car.
Seems to be a rash of tore up cars this time of year. BTW, pretty familiar with the T5. Depending on your HP let me caution you that the cases and internals are VERY weak. Destroyed 4 of them in our red car. Two of which had GForce billet internals (and one of which was a super rare factory 1LE tranny with all hardened internals and gears). Under heavy load the cases and bearings allow flex and cause major bind of the gears. Think I saw recently where they make an aftermarket thicker case that is supposed to help. That would be a good investment to save the tranny. We finally gave up on the T5 and went with a used Nationwide Series T101A magnesium 4-speed. Its about the only part of the car that currently isn't tore down awaiting transplant...oh wait...it's getting tore down too and getting a different gear ratio for 3rd.

[Wade Chamberlain]

I second Stephen's comments on the T5. I had one in the FFR early on, and turned 3rd gear into gravel with about 350 hp. They do OK up to moderate power levels, but with a heavy car like yours, it could be trouble. I'd go with a TKO.

[FamilyTruckster]

Thanks for the info guys. I have debated what trans to toss in. I've seen some upgraded t5s around that I've considered. My car is only 240 rwhp, but the 4500lbs does scare me. I've had good luck with them in my many mustangs-and got lots of spare parts from all the guys tearing them up. And yes, mostly 3 gear and the cluster.

That red IROC was a 305 at that point? Wow.

I like the idea of the stock car trans. I've been torn between a thunderbird IRS (I have one sitting around) and a full floater 9" because I constantly destroy axles, bearings, and carriers.

[DriftSS]

Yes Mike for the most part the red Camaro was a lowly 305 in its autox days (only way you could get with a 5-speed from the factory). May have had its 1st Vette L98 hot cam 350 installed near the end of our autoxing for a couple events, but that engine was never much over 260HP, hardly more than the 230HP of the 305. Sounded more obnoxious and potent than it was back then. My black Camaro definitely had more power, just couldn't handle as good as the red one.
Later iterations of red finally included a new block and better heads that went through several rebuilds pushing it from 280 to 400+ RWHP. But never really autoxed it with bigger power as Zack put in a welded diff for drifting, which is absolutely brutal on sticky slicks and driveline components in tight cornering. Now that the latest engine is dead we are looking to build a Dart block-based 406 stroker with no less than 7500RPM motor and 600HP to the crank. Going to do it right this time. Might be a Cobra killer if I can put a real diff back in it and get some new race rubber. Will at least make a fun Summit car for a PDX car, and for Cumberland autoXs...hopefully by next season if we find $$$ and time

[Nathan Atkins]

As a first year autocrosser I'm always looking for a good yardstick to measure my performance against, since i have no other unmodified RX8s to compare to, you can drive mine. If I beat you , then you have to pay my entry fee too! You'll have to adapt quickly to the paltry 159 pound feet of torque.

Maybe afterward you can help me convince Ed to introduce that 'shit' tire class i asked him about

PS- you can't ruin the car, it is my family sedan

[FamilyTruckster]

230? That's not bad. I thought it had a bit more with the way it just tore around there. And that I've encountered lots of IROCs and Z28s that I used to embarass with my stock 160hp crown vic.

[kbuva06]

Stephen

I'll also prob be coming to this event and wouldn't mind you co-driving if things fall through with nathan, or you'd rather drive a m3

Kam

[DriftSS]

Thanks for the offer Nathan. Unfortunately, I found out my gf already had other plans for Saturday so I think my plan is getting nixxed for now. However, I would definitely like to take you up on that offer at some time. If not the November event, maybe in the spring!

Its always nice to have a couple people drive the same car if you are starting out. Gives you better comparison than looking at similar cars, which may be prepared differently (tires make a ton of difference), or just comparing times with other cars. An index is helpful, but not necessarily the best indicator to gauge progression. When I started out two of us had near identical Z28s with identical tires. We also took lots of video footage and compared lines, speeds, braking points, etc, switched cars. Riding along was probably the best learning tool though.

Not sure what "shitty" tire class you are talking about, but there clearly are several levels of tires, with A006 Hoosiers and V710 Kumhos at the top of R-comps, several near r-comp tires that are basically cheater street-class tires (if >140 is the definition of street tire), like the Falken Azenis, Kumho XS which are a couple seconds faster than basic "street" tires on an autox, and then basically the rest which are mainly sub-standard. With OEM tires, you just can't compete with the trick ones for autox. Probably losing 2 seconds to a top street tire class tire and 3 to an r-comp.

I usually recommend that 1st season drivers stick with their car's street tires to learn the car and autox first. When you push hard enough to hear tire squeal all around the course, its time to consider a tire change. You have a slight advantage in that the low torque is a blessing for street tires. Consider getting a 2nd set of rims for next season and a good street tire class tire like the Kumho or Falken. Very drivable on the street (you may not want to take them off), and much more fun on the autox course.

Hope to see you out there Nathan.

[Nathan Atkins]

When i bought my car it came with Goodyear Eagle GT All seasons, I quickly realized i was bringing a knife to a gunfight and decided to get summers before really doing any research. With cost as a factor, I bought the highest rated reasonably priced UHP summer tire that Tire Rack had for sale, which was the Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500. I was hoping to get more improvement out of these tires since they were a summer compound, but was surprised to discover they weren't appreciably better than the All Seasons.

I suppose i shouldn't complain as they've been a durable and competent street tire, but upon having a couple of the experienced ride along with me, I've had a few say that tires were the only thing holding me back, I started looking into what you suggested and investing in a second set of wheels with more aggressive tires. I think the deciding factor on whether it's too early to jump to that would be if i were to see someone extract a significant amount of time from the car that i wasn't able to. That would solidify in my mind that there was still much improvement to be had and not to mask my errors with sticky rubber.

Thanks , and see you whenever you can make it.

[v10climber]

I think the deciding factor on whether it's too early to jump to that would be if i were to see someone extract a significant amount of time from the car that i wasn't able to. That would solidify in my mind that there was still much improvement to be had and not to mask my errors with sticky rubber.

Have Mike M drive it. He's an incredibly capable driver and you'd be surprised what that RX-8 is capable of even on those Firehawks. FWIW... at the last event you were ~2 seconds ahead of Lindsay in a stock, base, automatic, corolla on $50 all seasons. I'd say there was at least a second out there.

Every time I think I'm getting fast an SCCA event rolls around and I realize how far off the pace I am. We went to the Evolution Super Shootout in June and in the first day Caitlin and I paxed 107th and 110th out of 130. Ouch . There was a guy in the same car and comparable street tires but without coilovers running ~2 seconds faster than we were. The point I'm trying to make is that there is always room for driver improvement.

With all that said... I support getting rid of those crap firehawks and getting a set of RS-3s or StarSpecs. It'll make the car much more fun to drive and that's what really matters. And for purchasing auto-x tires in the future don't get anything that isn't in the "Extreme Performance" or "Track & Competition DOT" categories on tire rack.

[DriftSS]

Nathan, I'd have to say from comparing your times and knowing the generally crappy autoX tires you run, you are doing quite well as a novice. Summer/AS tires designations aren't always a good indication of grip (neither seems to be tire wear). In fact, I've seen several all seasons outrun summer only tires. I'd definitely consider getting a better set for next season. They don't need to be high $$ tires but definitely consider something purpose-made for autoX, either R-comps or more dedicated autoX tires such as Azenis, Kumho XS, the Bridgestone mentioned, etc.

And definitely try to make an SCCA event or two. The cream of the crop run there and you definitely can tell where you stand after their events. Smaller tracks tend to level the playing field and bunch up the pack because the courses aren't complex so you don't lose much time blowing a corner or two, and you can't usually run anywhere near full car potential. However, throw in a bigger course with several tricky sections, and line selection, braking, momentum and balls separate the seasoned from the novices by several seconds, not tenths.

[03threefiftyz]

Slow poke SCCA folks...

D.C. region has a pretty healthy RCS class (Stock RX8's on street tires).

[DriftSS]

@Nathan...before buying any new tires, consider looking at SCCA Solo National Championship (or ProSolo) results. Its a wealth of information on not only the competitiveness of certain cars in certain classes nationally, but what is this years "must have" tires for street tire or "r-comp" classes. At the upper echelons these guys (and gals) spend boatloads of time and money researching the best car/tire combos to be ultra competitive. Looking at the data you can see where the RX-8 fits in and what works best with it.

[v10climber]

Slow poke SCCA folks...

D.C. region has a pretty healthy RCS class (Stock RX8's on street tires).

This would be a great place to start with the RX-8. Next would be moving to STX. All the top STX RX-8s are either running the Star Specs or the RS-3s.

[03threefiftyz]

@Nathan...before buying any new tires, consider looking at SCCA Solo National Championship (or ProSolo) results. Its a wealth of information on not only the competitiveness of certain cars in certain classes nationally, but what is this years "must have" tires for street tire or "r-comp" classes. At the upper echelons these guys (and gals) spend boatloads of time and money researching the best car/tire combos to be ultra competitive. Looking at the data you can see where the RX-8 fits in and what works best with it.

I used 5 sets of A6's and one set of wets this year for reference. It gets a bit spendy.

[DriftSS]

Wow! 5 sets of A6s is spendy for autox. Don't think I ever used up more than 2.5 sets per year...and I'd run 20+ events per year back in the day...but I didn't shave them, ran them until entirely dead and corded and flipped to even wear and hide cords...and didn't freshen up with new rubber for bigger events.

By comparison my son's drift car tire budget again seems relatively cheap going through 4-12 tires a race weekend...but they are only $80 Federal 595s, not $300+/tire r-comps and only running a handful of events a year.

[Nathan Atkins]

I'm at least one promotion away from anything more than one set of tires per year, that or perhaps my Wife will allow me additional sets for each visible abdominal muscle. Either way, for the foreseeable future I'm looking at one set per year. The hot set up on stock wheels among SCCA folk seems to be 245/40/18 Hankook RS-3. I'm going to finish out the year on these Firestones and come out swinging next year with a set of those.

As for moving up classes, I don't intend to upgrade anything on the car except wear items. So wherever the car lies as is, is where I'd stay.

I have a lot of fun out there, and I think that maximizing the car's potential without replacing hard parts will enhance that, i just don't want to enter into an 'arms race'

Thanks for the information guys, I'll talk to Mike about having a few runs in the car to see where we stand relative to one another.

See you all next Saturday.

[Imprezive_04]

@Nathan...before buying any new tires, consider looking at SCCA Solo National Championship (or ProSolo) results. Its a wealth of information on not only the competitiveness of certain cars in certain classes nationally, but what is this years "must have" tires for street tire or "r-comp" classes. At the upper echelons these guys (and gals) spend boatloads of time and money researching the best car/tire combos to be ultra competitive. Looking at the data you can see where the RX-8 fits in and what works best with it.

I used 5 sets of A6's and one set of wets this year for reference. It gets a bit spendy.

Is "used" 40 runs?

Baller!

[03threefiftyz]

Not even 40. I've got a whole bunch of heavily OPR covered hoos from nats this year.

[AJ_RDR_Civic]

My magical R1R's have lasted all this season starting from full tread. I think about 30 events, probably like 170 runs or so give or take a few. Probably like 3k street miles on them from driving to-from events and around town a tiny bit. They are right around shaved depth now probably(2/32nd's - 3/32nd's) but overall grip is going out... I'm considering a couple of shaved sets for next season. I HATED these tires at full tread. Starting on them fresh at this years Pro Solo definitely had me concerned but it worked out in the end.

[Nathan Atkins]

I've witnessed the R1Rs serving you well AJ, I would like something i can rack up highway miles on though until I get a set of extra wheels. Although since i have a set of dedicated winters, I'm willing to Run summers to the ragged edge, would any tire in the extreme performance summer category make 12000 miles plus an autocross every 2 weeks?