Need Brakes

[dmyer]

What is a good brake pad for autocross while still being decent for daily driving.... my car is a stock Mini Cooper S.... so about 2,500 lbs to whoa.... using OEM type rotors. Figured you guys would have an informed opinon rather the online store reviews.... Thanks

Dan

[dscherpf]

I had Axxis Ultimates for a while but I didn't like them. Cold stops could be scary and they only felt good when heated up a lot.

I'm now on PFC Zs and they are pretty nice, good braking for dd and at autox when tires/brakes get hot they stop really well. I haven't been able to get them to fade on the street even when I bed them in originally. Probably different story on the track though.

I'd like to try Stoptech street performance pads next, they have good reviews for a dd/autox pad and are inexpensive for my car. Rockauto has the best prices I've found, the brand is listed as Centric since they own Stoptech.

[jrgoldbach]

My hawk HP+ pads felt great and never faded, except for on one hot lap of summit point main, but they create a bunch of noise and dust. Get a set of hawk HPS pads as long as you don't take them to a road course.

[ericw]

Watching the Rolex 24 hour race and the HP+ are doing great right now.

[ericw]

Update: car is in the wall

[jrgoldbach]

Lol.
it may be bottom of the barrel for the track crew, but is is a great street or dual purpose pad

[v10climber]

I guess the real question is what are you finding lacking with your stock pads? Are you actually fading them or are you just figuring you'll get aftermarket pads while you're doing brakes? The stock pads on Caitlin's JCW just start to fade after about 6-7 runs if it's hot out. Which is pretty impressive considering that stupid e-diff heats them up pretty quick. Generally OEM pads are pretty good in regards to DD and they hold up fine to light auto-x. The second you move towards a more "performance" pad you're probably going to get the occasional squealing and "knocking" in the calipers. I run Project Mu b-force on the STI and really like them. The only time I've heard them make noise was this week when the temps got down into the teens. They do fine with back to back auto-x runs and haven't faded on me yet although I haven't done a summer event with them yet.

FWIW Way at Way Motor Works really likes the EBC pads. I think we might try one of the EBC pads this year on the mini...

[dmyer]

The real reason I want to move to after market pads... is I am tired of the lousy wear charateristics of the stock pads/rotors.... I would really like for my rotors to last longer than 25K. I currently have Zimmerman rotors on the front and plan to put the same on rear along with new pads all around that can hold up for autocross and an occassional track day. If I could get a combo that works well on the street/autox and occasional track day.... a little extra noise won't bother me.... I will just turn the stereo up louder!

[dscherpf]

What do other mini owners recommend?

[dmyer]

Yes... I have been all through the Mini Cooper forums... there seems to be two schools of thought... this is what I use.... it's great... with no real evidence of how much they either know or how hard they use their brakes... versus the people that seem to really know what they are talking about... their opinion is generally - there is no pad that is really good at both street and track as you either give up some track durability or street drivability.... the same second school of thought also highly recommends bigger brakes.

[Rock Star]

So, you're looking for objective research about how multiple different brake pads are in regards to daily/autox/track specific to your car? Sorry, that just won't happen. Everyone who is looking to do that is usually trying to low-buck things. Therefore, they aren't going to have the budget to be going out and buying five different compounds to try out. The only people who do that are the ones that are competitively racing. And if they are racers, they don't give a damn about daily drive-ability, only times. You might get lucky to find an article comparing dual-purpose pads from a magazine like Grassroots Motorsports, but them actually using your type car would be just blind luck.

Therefore (as you have found), you will only run across people who can comment on their own pads and what they think of them. At most you might find someone who has raced/dailyed two types on the same car for any length of time.

How hard is a brake pad swap on a mini, really? For your 'occasional track day' (I am assuming 1-3 times a year) I just don't think it is worth getting a dual purpose pad. I'd get some good track pads/rotors and swap them on when you really need them. They will last a lot longer and be the performance you are looking for. If you do this and get some high temp brake fluid, I would think that would be all the mods required. If you do happen to still feel some fade, rig up some cheap brake ducts. But I wouldn't think a stock power Mini would need that much. Added bonuses: any track days will not add wear to your daily brakes, you can resell the set to someone if/when you sell the car, in the long run will be cheaper then wearing your expensive pads/rotors all the time, you retain high-grip in low temperature conditions for the street, and it doesn't take much effort to swap them (especially if you are already inspecting the brakes like you should before every track day).

So now that you have the track taken care of, you only need to worry about daily/Autox. Again, everyone has their own opinion on these. But, unless you are running super sticky rubber, I don't think it really matters much what you choose. Autox pads will grip better then stock, but will probably wear the rotors more. You may still be able to get over 25k miles out of them though, if you are running a different set for your track days.

Bigger brakes would kill your budget, you could pay someone to swap your pads every event and come out well ahead. I'd get sticker rubber and suspension upgrades well before these. (and you wouldn't need as much braking cause you'd be carrying more speed through the turns )

TL:DR Get a second set of track pads/rotors and be done with it. It will be cheaper/better in the long run and they will last for years with your use rate.

[ACoopeR]

i have used a few different sets of pads on my minis (04 non S and a 05 r53 jcw)

oem - used on street, autoX and track (when i was slow) pretty good cold bite and decent on the track in a beginner group when paired with good fliud, pretty dusty but quite, easy to clean, i haven't ever used these since i got fast so no real expereicne on fade resistance

axxis ult - probably my favorite middle of the line pad, even when i was pretty quick used these on the rear with no real fade, good cold bite, and pretty impresive fade resistnace given they aren't real track pads, dust less than oem + easier to clearn and noise was a bit more than oem

hawk hp+ - only pad i didn't really like, dust was a pain and they faded on track even when i was going slow (never autoXed them, but the cold bite was good so i think they would be good)

carbotech ax6 - holy smokes the cold bite is awesome, loved the pad for autoX, noise and dusty but easy enough to clean, i tried using them on the rear for the track and the tail would wiggle until the fronts warmed hahaha, they aren't really designed for track but took the high temps without falling apart, if i was just doing autoX i probably would have stuck with them

wilwood bp-10 - great street pad, very low dust and noise, never used them in anger

wilwood bp-20 - similar to bp10 but more dust and noise, better in the cold bite (i use these for street and autoX now) will fade on track if you start going fast, reasonable for your first couple events though

wilwood poly b - great step up from the bp-20 for track use (less cold bite) good fade resistance, lower bite when cold is the trade off, dust a lot

wilwood poly h - moved this as they are similar to poly-b but last a lot longer at high temps in terms of wear, trade off is even worse cold bite, can be scary on the street, dust a lot and quite comically noisy but yay race car noises lol

wilwood poly a - actually used these on the lemons car as it is a heavy car with a v8 ('87 monte carlo) epic fade resistance i have never experienced it, similar to h but higher grabiness in mid-temp range so depends on the car/setup etc if they make sense

pfc 97 - use these on the rear to replace the ax6 as they are less grabby at cold temp and more simlar to a track pad it temp v friction coeff

yes that took some money and time , but i use pads quite quickly on the track and basically keep having to change as i became a faster driver.....autoX not nearly as much pad usage so they last quite long in comparison

if you are tracking at all i would highly recommend using good fluid like motul600 or similar as that will help a huge amount! ate and oem fluid can't hold up well at all on our cars once you start going fast

as everyone said how you brake will change this as i know some people that love hawk pads etc on cars similar to mine but the guys with a similar style to me hate them, so yeah....ymmv

i leave track pads on the rear and swap the fronts depending on the event, after some practice it is pretty quick, less than 20mins a side, after chaning to a bbk <5 mins a side

i take rotors temps at every track event to keep my pad purchases in the right category as my driving improves and i mod the car, probably just added to the confusion but i will pretend it was helpful

[dmyer]

Thanks for all the input! That is a lot to think about.... I guess I will make a decision by March.... I already purchased an OTC Fluid evacuation/brake bleeder that runs on shop air ( yeah.... I like air) so I will be able to more easily change brakes/fluids. See everyone when it warms with new brakes and tires!

[ACoopeR]

I am jelly i have to conscript the gf into helping with brake bleeding.... just saw your comment on the rotors, the ax6s were pretty nice to my rotors, i have been happy with a set of centric cheapo base rotors, i like the coating they use as it never rusts onto the hub for me, i am pretty sure axxis stoptech centric are all the same folks

i have also heard lots of good stuff about the ebc reds as a mid/dual but haven't tried them myself and would probably just use them for street/autoX, i moved pretty much exclusively to 2 set of pads one for street/autox pads and one for track, i would rather trade more wrench time then have compromised performance on the track, but then i do more and more track events each year so everyone's tradeoff will be unique

i can tell i am getting restless for the season when i start replying to a million posts hahaha

[glennkrueger]

I'm also running centric rotors and am very happy with them.

I run Satisfied Gransport pads, which used to be available for the S2000 on Tire Rack, but not anymore. They have good bite and don't make much noise, but they do produce a good bit of dust. I have noticed fading at SCCA autocross schools, where we had dozens of runs.