Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Parking lots and traffic cones.
jadams1217
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Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

Okay, so here is my crazy idea for the off season:

I'm looking to buy a beater car and keep my FR-S off the road during the salty winter months. Now my parents have a few acres of cornfield which, during the fall/winter, is not being used. So, I think it would be a lot of fun to set up some sort of rallycross course and was wondering where do the CDC guys get their cones? I figure I would probably need at least 20-30.

As far as course design, here is a satellite view of the field:
Image

So far I was thinking of something like tihs:
Image

The black is a rough design of the course. The yellow are trails that go through the woods that are wide enough for a car, but would need some work to smooth out etc. And finally, the little splotch of red in the bottom left is about the size of a car, for some reference to size.

I'm also open to suggestions for beater cars. Guidelines being <$2000, RWD preferred, Manual preferred, has a roof (no Miatas, sorry), reliable, and can take the beating of being whipped around a corn field without any real mods. Right now I'm leaning towards a P71 Crown Vic, who's only downside would be the auto tranny.

Also, if this is not the appropriate location for this thread (I put it here mainly for the where to buy cones question), feel free to move it to a more appropriate location.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by vettegirl »

Since it seems like you are looking for the course to be a "practice" course or a fun course if I'm reading this correctly, you could pick up some cheap small cones used for soccer and such. They're small, very light, and would fit in the trunk of your car. Amazon has a ton of options, just put in "orange cones" and dozens of choices will come up from full-sized to mini. I bought this style: http://www.amazon.com/World-Sport-Colla ... ange+cones for my business. We use them at the Horse Expo for course design in the arena. I don't know how well they'd handle being run down - but at less than $1 per cone, you can afford to trash and replace them. If you are looking to leave them in the field, the light-weight options would not work, they'd blow away in a stiff wind I think. But Amazon carries some bigger/heavier options too.

As for eliminating the Miata as car of choice - you may want to reconsider that option. They're cheap to buy, they're pretty darn bullet proof, parts are readily available and cheap, you don't need to do a single mod to make them a great little driving car AND you can get an optional hard top for them. I can tell you that our 1996 is a tight car with that top on even though the entire interior is stripped. It's right cozy in there in the winter and although I get some water in the car if I hit it with a power washer, it's dry inside during summer thunderstorms. In the summer, you can pull the hard top off and store it. If you're concerned about roll-over, you can buy SCCA approved roll bars for under $500, and even full cages for around $1000 if you ever decide you want to track the car. Plus, as an added bonus, you wouldn't have to clear and smooth near as much trail for a Miata as you would for a Crown Vic!

If you're heart's completely set against a Miata - you could look at an older Mustang - late 90's - early 2000's models should be selling fairly inexpensively. Also a mass-produced car which means inexpensive parts. I'm not sure they're quite as hardy as a Miata, but they're pretty darned reliable. And it will still be way smaller than the Crown Vic - not to mention that Crown Vic gotta be murder at the gas station? You could spend an extra $500 on the car and pay for it with the gas savings over a couple years I bet. It may take some digging to find one in your price range, or you may have to go back to a fox-body earlier model, but I bet you can find one. Here's a nice one on CraigsList for $3500 http://winchester.craigslist.org/cto/4064571944.html and more hunting I'm sure would get one cheaper.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

I don't really have anything against the Miata from a daily driving perspective. My concern is more the lack of roll over protection when driving it through a cornfield/woods. That said, it may not be a bad idea to pick one up and put a full cage into it. Then I could potentially use it for legitimate rally races ;) So I won't rule out a Miata yet, but will need to keep in mind the cost of doing at least a roll over bar. The other concern with the Miata is how well the suspension will hold up. I know I've seen some people setting up Miatas for rallycross etc. so I'll look into it and see if it can be done on the cheap.

I have considered older mustangs, but it can be hard to find ones cheap enough and in running condition. Mustang might also be a big more costly on insurance, but I haven't looked into that yet.

As for cones, I'm not sure those would be big enough and may be difficult to see in a speeding car. I have used some like that before and they also tend to get blown around pretty easily. They are definitely cheaper and easier to store, although storage wouldn't be a problem at my parent's place.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by echan »

Where is this corn field located?

CDC gets cones from Blaze Cones http://www.blazecone.com/ and use the standard 18" cone. I believe the cost per cone is over $10 when you include shipping (we order over 50 at a time).

What do you plan to do with timing?
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by vettegirl »

A couple other things came to mind that you may have already considered, but just in case.

I'm not sure how well cleared the field is after harvest. Corn stalks are tough as nails - is there a danger of tire and undercarriage damage from the remains?

Tilled fields tend to be quite a bit looser than your average dirt lot. I learned this mighty lesson after burying an F150 to the axels in a field - the rest of the surrounding dirt path held it's weight just fine.

Will that area be more rutted than the average rally cross course due to harrowing? If so, you are doing to want a car with higher clearance that the Miata will give you for sure - I know our Miata scrapes the grass when we pull out of the under deck parking here.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

vettegirl wrote:A couple other things came to mind that you may have already considered, but just in case.

I'm not sure how well cleared the field is after harvest. Corn stalks are tough as nails - is there a danger of tire and undercarriage damage from the remains?

Tilled fields tend to be quite a bit looser than your average dirt lot. I learned this mighty lesson after burying an F150 to the axels in a field - the rest of the surrounding dirt path held it's weight just fine.

Will that area be more rutted than the average rally cross course due to harrowing? If so, you are doing to want a car with higher clearance that the Miata will give you for sure - I know our Miata scrapes the grass when we pull out of the under deck parking here.
There will be lots of cornstalks, which could potentially be an issue, but hasn't been in the past at least for the ATV's, dirtbikes, and golf carts that my parents have. I think a decent set of snow or gravel tires would be fine. Probably also want to rig up some skid plates as well.

The field tends to be rock hard and relatively smooth (other than the occasional ground hog hole) so I don't think ground clearance, even on a Miata, would be an issue. The field doesn't seem to get harrowed at all, but if necessary, my dad has a tractor with a small backhoe and front end loader, so moving some dirt around isn't a big issue.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by JayPar »

vettegirl wrote:As for eliminating the Miata as car of choice - you may want to reconsider that option.
Our Miata doesn't even clear our freshly cut lawn, but now that you mention it I just got an idea for a possible wintertime project. Mind if I make a couple minor mods to the LATRL G, dear?

Image

Not sure if it would pass tech for autocross, but if it did they would have to make a new category for coolest autocross car - and the only cars allowed in that class would be us and that Ford Country Esquire station wagon with the full faux wood panels.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

echan wrote:Where is this corn field located?

CDC gets cones from Blaze Cones http://www.blazecone.com/ and use the standard 18" cone. I believe the cost per cone is over $10 when you include shipping (we order over 50 at a time).

What do you plan to do with timing?
The corn field is located in Lancaster, PA

Now I feel bad for all the cones I've destroyed this year. I'll keep that site in mind if I decide to get cones, but I think I'm going to look into making my own markers out of essentially tent poles and posterboard (think downhill skiing).

As for timing, I'm not sure if its going to get all that serious. This is mainly going to be a thing that some friends and family would do, so all the timing equipment we would need would be a stop watch or I could even use the free app on my phone that I use to record my lap times when I go to a track.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jrgoldbach »

Can i bring my dirt bike and subaru impreza wagon?

Try looking at older 3 series BMWs. Cheap, relaible, manual trans, plenty of torque, easy to find roll cage kits...
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by Areddi »

Josh,

This could be awesome. I would love to give it a shot. Might be able to turn this into a one-day a year CDC event? I know there are many details surrounding how events work, but this could be a really cool idea, especially since renting the space costs $0.00. I would bring my Ranger out just to slide around, FR-S is not field worthy even with my snow tires haha.

-Alex
Check out my YouTube channel with Autocross videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrAreddi
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

Areddi wrote:Josh,

This could be awesome. I would love to give it a shot. Might be able to turn this into a one-day a year CDC event? I know there are many details surrounding how events work, but this could be a really cool idea, especially since renting the space costs $0.00. I would bring my Ranger out just to slide around, FR-S is not field worthy even with my snow tires haha.

-Alex
I would need to get the OK from my parents, but it would be pretty cool. I know they would be concerned about liability issues if anyone got hurt. I would also need to clear it with the farmer that rents the field from my parents, but I don't think that would be an issue. Also, would probably want to wait for the ground to freeze over, as we would have to have people drive across our meadow to get to the field.

Image

Could probably park cars in the smaller field and when the ground is frozen there shouldn't me as much of an issue with creating ruts, etc.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

For those of you more knowledgeable of Miatas than I, would this be a pretty good one to get?

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/4027086785.html

Figure it has the 1.8, might have the LSD (although they did say it was the base model, but that can probably be swapped in easily enough), and although it has an interesting paint scheme (I actually thought it was Jared's for a second) it looks like its pretty good condition from the pictures.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by vettegirl »

I'm tempted to call the guy and buy it for a "spare" LOL. Looks like a great deal if it runs/drives. It's the first year that they switched to the 1.8L motor, but the motor was not a new design from what I understand. You would want to invest in an hard top, but they're not expensive. I doubt very seriously if it has an LSD in it - our 95 was not near as basic (had ac/PS) and it had an open Diff, it's one if the first mechanical upgrades we did to the car. Check the car for rust, that's usually the biggest issues in them, take a magnet with you to check rocker panels for body filler. And check the undercarriage, the frame rails are damaged pretty easily. Other issues we've had that you will want to check - make sure you check the torque on the harmonic balancer (it's the big pulley at the bottom of the engine), if that comes lose it causes a wobble that snaps the crank shaft nose - goodbye engine when that happens!
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by JayPar »

The miata.net forums have lots of good info, such as this buying guide: http://www.miata.net/faq/usedmx5.html and a list of common issues with NA Miatas: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=163633

Hard tops are around $1000 in new condition. There's a used one on Ebay currently at $370 but it has 23 bids so far. The Torsen LSD we got was around $500 and the install was another $300.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

Image

Step 1: Acquire used Miata - ✔
Step 2: Convince parents to host CDC Rallycross event
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by Nathan Atkins »

Hmmm, I've got some snow tires for the rx8....
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

So here's what I was up to this weekend:

http://youtu.be/WMnM-SGv5zk

My sister recently wrecked my Dad's Toyota Echo. Fortunately, she is fine but although the car is drivable it has been deemed to expensive to fix. So I was able to convince my Dad that the best use for it was to beat it around the cornfield. So I set up a course and did just that. Unfortunately the many small details of a cornfield seems to have wrought havoc on Youtube's encoder so there are a fair amount of artifacts in the video. I might upload some more from this weekend but you should get the idea. I was able to get it up to about 60mph down the straight ;)

Still need to convince my Mom to actually host an event though, and having her ride with me for a trip around the course only led to her forbidding me to drive my younger siblings around that fast(who I did teach to drive stick and had them driving around ages 11-14).

I probably won't be able to get back up there till Thanksgiving, at which point I will have gotten temporary tags for my Miata and will see how that does around the cornfield. That said, I was pleasantly surprised at how good the Echo was around the cornfield. Plenty of lift off oversteer and all around solid balance. It could use some better tires though and a new clutch.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

Here's another view from inside the mighty Echo:

http://youtu.be/RFOQZuQKIGc

Youtube didn't seem to barf on this one.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by Areddi »

Nice vids, I am 100% on board with this. You should talk this with Ed and make it happen!
Check out my YouTube channel with Autocross videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrAreddi
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by jadams1217 »

Areddi wrote:Nice vids, I am 100% on board with this. You should talk this with Ed and make it happen!
I've got to convince my Mom first. My Dad doesn't seem to mind but is using the classic parenting technique "Go ask your mother".

I'm going to try asking again around Thanksgiving and if I get the go ahead, I will talk to Ed.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by LaurenceC »

jadams1217 wrote:Here's another view from inside the mighty Echo:

http://youtu.be/RFOQZuQKIGc

Youtube didn't seem to barf on this one.

I like the buck running by at :43 :)
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by JoeTR6 »

Oh man. Now I have a use for the two sets of TR6 rally springs I own.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by v10climber »

JoeTR6 wrote:Oh man. Now I have a use for the two sets of TR6 rally springs I own.
Dang it Joe. Why did you have to say that. Now my life is incomplete without a TR6 rally car.
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by kbuva06 »

SCCA is looking for a new rallycross site...
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Re: Where to buy cones / Rallycross course design

Post by hufflepuff »

Yeah, SCCA rallycross has a facebook group where you can get in contact with Adam Kimmett.
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