New Changes for the 2014 Season

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echan
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New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by echan »

OK. After much debate (both in the open forum and with the organizers), here's the new changes for the 2014 season:

The new tire indexes will be as follows:

Tires Multipler
201+TW (Lower performance tires, all-seasons) - 0.99
101-200TW (R1R, Rivals, RS3, ZII, etc.) (Make this the default at registration) - 1.00
50-100TW (RA1, R888, A048) - 1.01
<50TW (Hoosiers, V710, Z214) - 1.025

We will remove the Small Bore Series but will add the FYI sortable "fun" groups (small bore, AWD, etc) with no prizes. To make up the reduced prizes from the elimination of Small Bore, we will create more prizes as outlined below:

Index awards (end of season):
1st place - 8 passes
2nd - 6 passes
3rd - 4 passes
4th - 3 passes
5th - 2 passes
6th - 1 pass

If certain "Fun" groups become popular (e.g. more than 9 participants at most events) during the 2014 season, we may add a "fun" prize for that group in the in 2015 season.

I think all of the CDC'ers want to keep the system simple and not cause various sub-groups. I think these slight changes will make the tire index more fair and the additional awards will allow more people to win passes. Making Small Bore (and adding other fun groups), should help keep everyone together as one group.

When Small Bore was first introduced the Miatas and other small bore cars were much slower than the other cars. Now Miatas often do well in the index and even take FTD. So in some sense, the Small Bore cars have pretty much grew out of the initial reasons for giving them a special series.

Ed
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Areddi
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by Areddi »

Looks good Ed, I think this is a nice incorporation of everyone's suggestions and should be enjoyable for everyone.
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kbuva06
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by kbuva06 »

rules look good.

just out of curiosity, are hoosiers really only worth 1 second on a 40 second course versus 200 treadwear tires?
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Sky Render
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by Sky Render »

I like it. :D
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vettegirl
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by vettegirl »

Love it, great compromise for all.
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by v10climber »

kbuva06 wrote:rules look good.

just out of curiosity, are hoosiers really only worth 1 second on a 40 second course versus 200 treadwear tires?
I think you'd be surprised. The new crop of tires (rivals, Z2s, etc) are really fast. The data I've seen has them coming pretty close to matching Hoosier levels of grip laterally. Where the street tires are weak is in the transitional stages where they're doing both braking and cornering at the same time. Race tires tend to handle that overlap much better which is where a lot of the quicker laps come from.
--Nick D
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by aeonracer »

This is why CDC is my club of choice.
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03threefiftyz
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by 03threefiftyz »

v10climber wrote:
kbuva06 wrote:rules look good.

just out of curiosity, are hoosiers really only worth 1 second on a 40 second course versus 200 treadwear tires?
I think you'd be surprised. The new crop of tires (rivals, Z2s, etc) are really fast. The data I've seen has them coming pretty close to matching Hoosier levels of grip laterally. Where the street tires are weak is in the transitional stages where they're doing both braking and cornering at the same time. Race tires tend to handle that overlap much better which is where a lot of the quicker laps come from.
Not apples to apples for sure, but best comparo I have:

Brian Peters (better driver than me by a long shot):
1st in STR 350Z Total Time 133.576
Me:
2nd in BSP 350Z Total Time 126.839
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03threefiftyz
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by 03threefiftyz »

kbuva06 wrote:rules look good.

just out of curiosity, are hoosiers really only worth 1 second on a 40 second course versus 200 treadwear tires?
Depends on surface and course...

R-comps ravage street tires on concrete.
kbuva06
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by kbuva06 »

03threefiftyz wrote: Not apples to apples for sure, but best comparo I have:

Brian Peters (better driver than me by a long shot):
1st in STR 350Z Total Time 133.576
Me:
2nd in BSP 350Z Total Time 126.839

Interesting data. Based on this, you would have been exactly 2.125 seconds quicker if that was a "40 second course". Clearly one cannot extrapolate the course down to 40 seconds based on these times though. The fact that he is a better driver than you means the gap would only be wider with equal drivers. As you mentioned regarding concrete however, this surface probably over-compensated for the difference in driver skill, so I'm still thinking the gap would be at around 2.0 seconds.
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by CaitieD »

kbuva06 wrote:
03threefiftyz wrote: Not apples to apples for sure, but best comparo I have:

Brian Peters (better driver than me by a long shot):
1st in STR 350Z Total Time 133.576
Me:
2nd in BSP 350Z Total Time 126.839

Interesting data. Based on this, you would have been exactly 2.125 seconds quicker if that was a "40 second course". Clearly one cannot extrapolate the course down to 40 seconds based on these times though. The fact that he is a better driver than you means the gap would only be wider with equal drivers. As you mentioned regarding concrete however, this surface probably over-compensated for the difference in driver skill, so I'm still thinking the gap would be at around 2.0 seconds.
You can't really extrapolate these times down to a 40 second course for many reasons:
- driving style/driver talent
- concrete in Lincoln vs. our surfaces
- average course speed (one of the two courses that make up this combined time included a 3rd gear section for a lot of cars- something that CDC just can't do)
- course design (speed maintenance type courses vs. power courses)
- rubbering in of the courses after thousands of runs have been made
- car prep differences (BSP car should be faster than STR car even if they were both running the same tires)
- weather (BSP ran Tuesday/Wednesday and I'm pretty sure, though not 100%, that STR ran Thursday/Friday, therefore the levels of grip on the surface as well power produced by the cars based on air temperature would have been different)

It's interesting data, but for our purposes it doesn't tell us much of anything, except for over those few days, at nationals, on concrete, in Lincoln, NE, Mike Lane was ~7 seconds faster than the guy that placed first in STR.

Unfortunately, it's just nearly impossible to generalize in these situations, especially without a large data set, and no matter what you choose someone is going to be unhappy (see sccaforums and the many discussions about PAX indexing). If the index turns out to be grossly unfair, we'll reassess it in the future. Our priority as a club is always trying to make our participants happy and ensure you have a good time at our events. Obviously if our index system is terrible and no one likes it then we won't be able to achieve either of those goals.
Caitlin
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03threefiftyz
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by 03threefiftyz »

Like I said, certainly not apples to apples. Thurs/Fri has a lot more OPR issues than Tues/Weds. I seem to remember the weather being sunny and hot every day, though. A BSP car might be .4-.5 faster on the same tires vs an STR car, but that would be speculation. I think the tire index is about right for CDC lots/courses.
kbuva06
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by kbuva06 »

not many people in CDC run hoosiers anyways, so it is sort of a moot point.
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by BugBomb »

kbuva06 wrote:not many people in CDC run hoosiers anyways, so it is sort of a moot point.
An excellent point. Fewer people run race tires with CDC lately, and we feel that the index has played a role in that. The new street tires have gained an advantage. Our new index re-balances things and hopefully makes R-comps a fair option again.
Mike M
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The views expressed herein are my own and are not intended to sound like a "dick."
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Nathan Atkins
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by Nathan Atkins »

I'm interested in a four space saver tire index :D
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Wade Chamberlain
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by Wade Chamberlain »

most of the hoosiers that are run at CDC are not exactly "fresh". That would further explain the close indexes.
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Nathan Atkins
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Re: New Changes for the 2014 Season

Post by Nathan Atkins »

Hmmmm, Grand Am GS-class dry tires are the same size as mine....

how would one go about fining cast offs? 8-)
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