Capital Driving Club Discussion Forum

What is the best fwd tire option 200+ tread rating in your opinions what are people running? im considering the hankook rs3, bfg rivals and falken azenis im sure there are a few others out there im just not unsure and new to pavement. on dirt i have 1 option much easier lol

thanks

I like my Dunlop ZII's

I like my Dunlop ZII's

What size wheel and going on what car?

16x6.5 2001 nissan sentra tire size im looking at is 215-45-16

For that exact size, it looks like your chief option is BFG Rivals...

There isnt much in that size.

As far as the other tires (if you find them in a size that works)

RS3(v2), Very good tire, its a front runner. Mainly shines in hot conditions and falls a hair flat in the cold.

Rival, Very good tire, not the best on concrete (not an issue for CDC stuff), good middle of the road option, will be edged by RS3 in the hot.

Azenis, good tire, but outdated. The competition has outpaced it at this point. You will have no problems with them, they really are good, but will be a bit slower than RS3 or Rival.

Dunlop ZII*spec. The regular ZII was discontinued, but I run the non-* the following are my observations of my tires. A very precise tire with a narrow slip angle performance. Good in the cold and medium temps. Within striking distance, but might be a hair slower than RS3.


I'm sure that Jay and Denise can chime in with much more observation as they have tried most on their Miata and have direct experience rather than my inferences.

im not stuck on that tire size, anything that fits 16x6.5 2055016 seemed to have a few options

215/45/16 seems to have a height of 23.5" and 900 revs per mile.

205/50/16 is 24.1" height and 867 revs per mile.

You have a way to correct your speedometer?

What is the stock tire size for the car?


Tons of option if you can correct your speedo, but then you also want to look into what the gearing impact is.

195 55 16 is stock

im not to concerned about the speedo unless i need to be?? i went to a little smaller tire currently at a 205 45 16 for some help down low

Tirerack still has some Dunlop ZII (non-star spec) on closeout in 205/50/16 for $125 each (+s&h), so $500 for the set. Thats a decently competitive tire for a pretty good price. ( and only 1mph off of stock at 65mph, car going faster than indicated)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... mpare1=yes

They have the starspec for $56/set more, but the non-star will still be a good and speedy tire, its what I have on my Miata and I managed FTD(unofficial, organizer times dont count) at the last Harry Grove Test and Tune on them. (aside from Mike's non-recorded lunch runs)

At least thats what I would do.

Apexcarver wrote:As far as the other tires (if you find them in a size that works)

RS3(v2), Very good tire, its a front runner. Mainly shines in hot conditions and falls a hair flat in the cold.

Rival, Very good tire, not the best on concrete (not an issue for CDC stuff), good middle of the road option, will be edged by RS3 in the hot.

...

I'm sure that Jay and Denise can chime in with much more observation as they have tried most on their Miata and have direct experience rather than my inferences.

Here are my impressions of the ones I've tried, which may not be worth much:

RS3 v2 - My favorite if it's 60+ degrees. Excellent lateral grip, and longitudinal also. You can throw the car into a corner and they'll hold or hop slightly unless you're being nuts (in which case you'll spin like I did a few times this year). When it does start to slip it communicates well so you can get back on track quickly, but the traction while slipping is not great (smaller slip angle tolerance). These to me feel like running on rails, bicycle tires, or skis (in a good way). I thought they performed pretty well in the wet also as long as it's warm enough, but am not sure about wet times compared to other tires. They still had the same characteristics as in the dry, just at lower thresholds. We also ran the RS3 v1's before the v2's, and the v1's seemed to need around 70+ degrees but had a higher top end heat tolerance. At 90 degrees we didn't spray the RS3 v2's down but maybe we should have.

Rivals - Also excellent dry grip, though not quite as much as the RS3s laterally. They are a more forgiving tire in terms of slip angle so if you start to slip you still have more traction, but they don't communicate as well as RS3s IMO. These seem to work best when it's 60+ degrees also. Seems like they have a similar temp range as RS3 v2 (others might have different feelings about that). They didn't seem as good in the wet IIRC.

Z2 - I've only driven 3 runs on these (Joe O's car) but was quite impressed. They seemed to be somewhere between the RS3 and Rival in terms of grip and steering response, but again that was just a very brief impression. I'm not sure I even exceeded the grip limit much.

R1Rs (140 TW) - Very good grip, though not quite to the level of the RS3v2s or Rivals in terms of lateral grip. But if you do start to slip, there is not as much drop off in terms of grip level, and usually you can just apply a little power to recover. These feel more like a dune buggy experience to me - super maneuverable but not all that precise. These are best in the cold and/or wet, like under 70 degrees. Last weekend we used them at Winchester (Mercedes club event) and it was snowing in the morning, and they took a couple of runs to warm up but were nice after that. Haven't tried them when it's warm (like 80) but I hear they need spraying down.

sounds like the rs3 is the way to go, good price point and high grip. fast at high temp most like will fit my leaning driving style! ill post up the lowest price i can get on them

thank you

Jay, knowing how you guys can go through tires, you might want to check out tirerack. They have the Dunlop ZII (non-star) on closeout still at $444 per set in 205/50/15, which is a heck of a deal.

Joe, sounds good but we recently bought a set of used RS3 v2's (225/45/15) from Andy. He said they had about 80 runs on them from Nationals and some regional events. Considering the set that we recently retired had 330 runs (yes I kept a spreadsheet) this set should last us for a few months. The ones we retired still had decent tread in the center, but were worn on the shoulders. They still had decent grip but we were thinking they might have heat cycled out a bit... they might have lost a few percent of grip.

Denise and I may get some 275 Hoosiers for SCCA (DP class) and are starting to prep the car to handle them. We recently discovered when looking at our spring rates that we are running 375 lb springs in the front and 500 in the rear, which is backwards (but perhaps masked by our front sway bar, which we stiffened early in the year). A suspension overhaul / upgrade is my winter project. At times I've felt the car is hard to control in slaloms over 50 MPH, and it does tend to nosedive a bit when braking hard, so hopefully those things will improve.

Glad I checked this thread. Will definately try to get in on that tirerack closeout on z2s.

kboyer47 wrote:sounds like the rs3 is the way to go, good price point and high grip.

Just keep in mind the RS-3 sidewalls are a little squishy. They are a great tire if you can properly support them with a wide wheel but on a car that pinches tires and is kind of front heavy I'd lean more towards the Z2. The stiffer sidewall helps. I'm sure you'll be happy with any of them though. The current crop of street tires are all really good.

JayPar wrote:Denise and I may get some 275 Hoosiers for SCCA (DP class) and are starting to prep the car to handle them. We recently discovered when looking at our spring rates that we are running 375 lb springs in the front and 500 in the rear, which is backwards (but perhaps masked by our front sway bar, which we stiffened early in the year). A suspension overhaul / upgrade is my winter project. At times I've felt the car is hard to control in slaloms over 50 MPH, and it does tend to nosedive a bit when braking hard, so hopefully those things will improve.

You sure on those spring rates? Didn't Ed York set the car up? If so that's backwards from every other miata I've ever seen. Unless someone goofed and accidentally put the front springs on the rear of the car. Jesus christ that car is going to be fast if you get the spring rates sorted...

PM me if you want to talk about setup for 275s. I've been trying to talk Caitlin into CSP for a while now

v10climber wrote:PM me if you want to talk about setup for 275s. I've been trying to talk Caitlin into CSP for a while now

Everybody goes to CSP!

(except me)

v10climber wrote:You sure on those spring rates? Didn't Ed York set the car up? If so that's backwards from every other miata I've ever seen. Unless someone goofed and accidentally put the front springs on the rear of the car. Jesus christ that car is going to be fast if you get the spring rates sorted...

PM me if you want to talk about setup for 275s. I've been trying to talk Caitlin into CSP for a while now

The spring rates haven't changed since we bought the car. The original ad from Jeff Suway (which I still have) said 550F / 375R, but the numbers on the rear are quite clear (0600.250.0500) which is apparently 6 inches length, 2.5 inches diameter, and a 500 lb/in spring rate. The numbers on the front are less legible, but say: 150.64.66 (the first 6 and the last 6 could be 8's, but the other digits are clear.) From looking this up on the web, the numbers appear to be metric units, but the 66 means 6.6 kg/mm which corresponds to 370 lb / in. When we did the engine swap from Ed York's friend's ITA car, we were also going to buy the suspension off of that car (which had 700/400 lb springs) but he said our springs were heavier. We suspect he just looked at the rears and assumed that the fronts would also be heavier.

I ordered some Xida (gen 2)'s with 800 / 500 lb springs. Just need to wait several months for them to be built. Hopefully they won't be too stiff, but we'll see.

Regarding CSP vs. DP, I have a moral objection to adding an interior to a beautiful stripped car just to meet CSP rules... but I might be convinced otherwise. We were talking with Brian Garfield about this suspension stuff and got the impression that he might be considering a move to DP since there's less competition nationally.

Want me to bring over my sawzall?

I support this plan!

JayPar wrote:I ordered some Xida (gen 2)'s with 800 / 500 lb springs. Just need to wait several months for them to be built. Hopefully they won't be too stiff, but we'll see.

Regarding CSP vs. DP, I have a moral objection to adding an interior to a beautiful stripped car just to meet CSP rules... but I might be convinced otherwise. We were talking with Brian Garfield about this suspension stuff and got the impression that he might be considering a move to DP since there's less competition nationally.

yes yes yes yes yes! The new ones based off the HVT shocks? I think you'll be pretty happy. They're going to be crazy stiff. You're almost doubling spring rates. However they should make the car much much faster and the car will probably be better damped on the street.

I'm not saying put an interior back in and go to CSP. That sounds like a huge pain and you'd have to track down all the little pieces to remain CSP legal. However, the difference between CSP and DP is not slight even though that may be the perception. For starters... minimum weight is somewhere around 1900lbs. Any idea what your car weighs in current configuration? Don't take this the wrong way... but I think a competitive DP build is a deep dark hole down which you do not want to travel. While it may seem CSP-esque on the surface at the higher prep levels it is not. Lots of engine work (custom cams, high compression pistons, etc.) . Custom suspension pieces. There is Limited Prep Prepared but it's still a spendy proposition that requires either a lot of knowledge and ability to do the work yourself or deep pockets to pay someone else to do the development. If I were you I'd just throw some 275s on it and have fun in DP locally.

v10climber wrote:I'm not saying put an interior back in and go to CSP. That sounds like a huge pain and you'd have to track down all the little pieces to remain CSP legal. However, the difference between CSP and DP is not slight even though that may be the perception. For starters... minimum weight is somewhere around 1900lbs. Any idea what your car weighs in current configuration? Don't take this the wrong way... but I think a competitive DP build is a deep dark hole down which you do not want to travel. While it may seem CSP-esque on the surface at the higher prep levels it is not. Lots of engine work (custom cams, high compression pistons, etc.) . Custom suspension pieces. There is Limited Prep Prepared but it's still a spendy proposition that requires either a lot of knowledge and ability to do the work yourself or deep pockets to pay someone else to do the development. If I were you I'd just throw some 275s on it and have fun in DP locally.

I have no idea what the car weighs, but am very curious to find out the next time we get it aligned/balanced.

I don't think we're intending for this to be a truly competitive DP car. The problem right now is that we were already in DP class from the moment we bought the car, but on street tires I'm getting beaten by 6 seconds by top CSP and DP cars. I have no idea how much of that is tires, other car prep, or driver. I suspect tires account for 3-4 seconds of that, but that's just a wild guess and right now it's totally meaningless to compare our times against DP or CSP cars.

We could leave the street tires on (but run in DP) and informally compare against STS like we have done, but we have a better power-to-weight ratio so that's not really fair to them. Or it shouldn't be fair - although I'm not beating all of the STS cars. For example Alan beat me by around 1 second in Hershey. No doubt some of that is driving skill, but I'm hoping the suspension setup has something to do with it too.

At this point we want to keep the car street legal which means not cutting the windshield off (sorry Joe), but would like to put on some R-comps just for fun, to try playing in the same sandbox as CSP and DP to see how close that gets us without expecting to threaten the leaders. I could see adding aero mods in the future. That might lead us down the road to CSP. But at this point I'm not even sure how active I want to get in SCCA.

If we were going to become more active in SCCA it would probably be cheaper to sell this car and get a more stock car, but at this point I don't think we want to do that either.

Oh - sorry for the thread hijack, but this forum needs some activity.

Joe, you mentioned the tires on sale. We actually paid the same price for our R1Rs at Radial Tire in Silver Spring. Paul takes good care of us and he's a racer. They usually have all the popular race tires in stock or can get them in a day or two. He got us our wheels cheaper than anywhere else too.

vettegirl wrote:Joe, you mentioned the tires on sale. We actually paid the same price for our R1Rs at Radial Tire in Silver Spring. Paul takes good care of us and he's a racer. They usually have all the popular race tires in stock or can get them in a day or two. He got us our wheels cheaper than anywhere else too.

+1 for Radial Tire. Paul's a great guy, and friends with folks across all types of motorsport. Really enjoyed working with him. I always give him a call first, and never have to call anyone else

JayPar wrote:

v10climber wrote:I'm not saying put an interior back in and go to CSP. That sounds like a huge pain and you'd have to track down all the little pieces to remain CSP legal. However, the difference between CSP and DP is not slight even though that may be the perception. For starters... minimum weight is somewhere around 1900lbs. Any idea what your car weighs in current configuration? Don't take this the wrong way... but I think a competitive DP build is a deep dark hole down which you do not want to travel. While it may seem CSP-esque on the surface at the higher prep levels it is not. Lots of engine work (custom cams, high compression pistons, etc.) . Custom suspension pieces. There is Limited Prep Prepared but it's still a spendy proposition that requires either a lot of knowledge and ability to do the work yourself or deep pockets to pay someone else to do the development. If I were you I'd just throw some 275s on it and have fun in DP locally.

I have no idea what the car weighs, but am very curious to find out the next time we get it aligned/balanced.

I don't think we're intending for this to be a truly competitive DP car. The problem right now is that we were already in DP class from the moment we bought the car, but on street tires I'm getting beaten by 6 seconds by top CSP and DP cars. I have no idea how much of that is tires, other car prep, or driver. I suspect tires account for 3-4 seconds of that, but that's just a wild guess and right now it's totally meaningless to compare our times against DP or CSP cars.

We could leave the street tires on (but run in DP) and informally compare against STS like we have done, but we have a better power-to-weight ratio so that's not really fair to them. Or it shouldn't be fair - although I'm not beating all of the STS cars. For example Alan beat me by around 1 second in Hershey. No doubt some of that is driving skill, but I'm hoping the suspension setup has something to do with it too.

At this point we want to keep the car street legal which means not cutting the windshield off (sorry Joe), but would like to put on some R-comps just for fun, to try playing in the same sandbox as CSP and DP to see how close that gets us without expecting to threaten the leaders. I could see adding aero mods in the future. That might lead us down the road to CSP. But at this point I'm not even sure how active I want to get in SCCA.

If we were going to become more active in SCCA it would probably be cheaper to sell this car and get a more stock car, but at this point I don't think we want to do that either.

Oh - sorry for the thread hijack, but this forum needs some activity.

I still have my 275s mounted on 9" et36 wheels and sealed in plastic. If you need to borrow them to play with fittment let me know. If you want to be competitive with these tires in CSP, they need to be on 15x11 et20 wheels. I can not afford a set of these yet...