Cancelled - November 15th CDC AutoX Bowie, MD

[echan]

Hey Everyone,

We really didn't want to cancel since this was our last event of the year. However due to the severe weather forecast of heavy rain and thunderstorms with a chance of rain as much as 100% (NBC), we are forced to cancel the autox for Saturday the 15th at the Bowie Baysox Stadium.

We will update the points standings by dropping the lowest 4 events for the Indexed Series and drop the lowest 5 events for the Small Bore Series.

Sorry for any inconvience.

Ed Chan

-PS as a side note, I'm about (next couple of weeks) to sell a 1990 Miata for $1400. If anyone is interested, e-mail me at capitaldriving@yahoo.com .

[FredK]

I hope you guys figure out a way to allow people to pay when they register next year. I know this is an old tired subject, but it needs to be done. Autocross is not a fair weather activity. No other group cancels events due to the forcast of rain, none. The lack of prepayment puts you in an immpossible situation.
FredK

[Gonz]

I've autocrossed in the rain before, and it wasn't predicated on whether or not I had "already paid for it."
I went because it was something fun to do. What else are you going to do on a rainy day? Go to the mall ? So I don't think prepaying is the solution

The solution is just to keep the events as scheduled. Whoever shows up shows up. People plan their weekends far in advance and set aside the day to go to the autoX.

So we get 45 drivers instead of 90. 45 x 25 = $1125. It doesn't cost $ 1000 to rent the parking lot, so the club is not in jeopardy of taking a loss on the event. Multiple cancellations like this leave the members disappointed.

You know, Miatas do have roofs that can be raised when it rains !

[dmitts]

I say heck with the timing equipment, run double stop watches, and just don't count it for season points considering the times can't be accurate enough. A rainy event can still make for an enjoyable one and be a good learning experience for how your vehicle handles in very slippery conditions.

[FredK]

The reason Ed cancels the Bowie events is because he/they don't want to stand in the rain and loose money. Bowie allows you to cancel and not pay, Frederick doesn't. That's why you run in the rain in Frederick and not Bowie. Pre paying will solve several problems with the CDC events at once, like getting home at 8PM when the weather is perfect and everyone shows up for an overbooked event.

[wrathe74]

I finally got my magnetic numbers too...and that right there would have made me faster! Brian would have to make way for the new fastest Honda.. lol

I haven't been a member long, but I had a great time this season and have learned a lot, and I'm already jittering because I can't get my fix. I was really looking forward to the final race for this season....rain or not.

I hope everyone enjoys thier holidays and stays safe....maybe I'll see you at a Kart event this winter!

[echan]

Yes, I dont' like the club losing money, and yes I don't like standing in the rain. However, I really really wanted to hold the event today BECAUSE IT'S THE LAST EVENT OF THE YEAR, but at the time we had to make the decision, it seemed that I would just be stubborn not to cancel. Yes, Frederick doesn't allow us to have a rain date and Bowie does, which does factor in the the decision (basically as long as conditions are safe we are running at Frederick, becuase we have to pay no matter what).

However, everytime I cancel at Bowie (and before at Manassas -Kyle can comfirm this statement), I always say that I'm a little worried that someone may get hurt in poor weather conditions. I can just hear the lawyers say, "And you knew the weather conditions were going to be bad, you even had the ability to cancel the event and not even suffer a financial loss, but you still put the event on, which caused my client to suffer XYZ."

I'm really sorry that we cancelled the event, but I think it was the correct decision with what information we had at the time.

If people want to do an early December event (no points), like we used to do, I'm willing if others are.

[AJ_RDR_Civic]

Yes, I dont' like the club losing money, and yes I don't like standing in the rain. However, I really really wanted to hold the event today BECAUSE IT'S THE LAST EVENT OF THE YEAR, but at the time we had to make the decision, it seemed that I would just be stubborn not to cancel. Yes, Frederick doesn't allow us to have a rain date and Bowie does, which does factor in the the decision (basically as long as conditions are safe we are running at Frederick, becuase we have to pay no matter what).

However, everytime I cancel at Bowie (and before at Manassas -Kyle can comfirm this statement), I always say that I'm a little worried that someone may get hurt in poor weather conditions. I can just hear the lawyers say, "And you knew the weather conditions were going to be bad, you even had the ability to cancel the event and not even suffer a financial loss, but you still put the event on, which caused my client to suffer XYZ."

I'm really sorry that we cancelled the event, but I think it was the correct decision with what information we had at the time.

If people want to do an early December event (no points), like we used to do, I'm willing if others are.

as much as i hate seeing an event get cancelled, can't say i blame you(i really blame the weather man ). its always fun driving in the rain but sucks having to stand out in it all day.

count me in for a December event!! hell i'm in for a snow event, really put the Winterforce tires i use for RallyX on the Neon to the test

[wrathe74]

... If people want to do an early December event (no points), like we used to do, I'm willing if others are.

Count me in as well.

[Dan133]

I'll play in December, too. I just got my R-compounds mounted and bought a cordless impact driver and am all hot to try them out !! No worries from me about the cancellation-- I worked all week in the cold rain and it really does take a lot of fun out of autox

[mla163]

I'm down for a december autocross. I need some resolution for the season

[echan]

I think we can try to "shoe-string" approach with equipment so that it doesn't take so much time for set-up and tear-down. Here's my thoughts:

1. Use only 70 cones (back in 2003 we used only 60 cones, now we use about 120 cones), and don't bring the trailer (take too much time to load, unload, park, etc).
2. With no trailer only use stop watches (it's only for fun with no points anyways).
3. With no trailer, no food and no drink.
4. Use the old 2004 battery operated Kareoke speaker for the PA
5. Use the Harry Grove lot and limit the field to 35 and try to schedule the lot about 3 days before the event so that we can catch a warm winter day
6. With such a short notice and small field, no port-a-jon
7. Entry fee would be the standard $25

If this event is success full and we have enough organizers, we can try to do it throughout the winter - possibly several times if we get a mild winter.

I'm just brain-storming here. Any Thoughts??

[AJ_RDR_Civic]

sounds good, i'm in!

[DrSeuss]

Ed,

I'd be willing to store some cones and equipment and haul it back and forth to an event. My hatch has plenty of room. I'd take full responsibility for the equipment. Even if I can't attend the event for some reason, it's still my responsbility to get stuff to and from the event.

Andy

[mla163]

Ed, the shoe string setup sounds good. My only comment would be the timing by stopwatch. I'm not sure if we could get a high level of accuracy with stopwatches. Granted, it's only for fun, but part of the fun is seeing how your times stack up.

[echan]

I'm not sure if we could get a high level of accuracy with stopwatches. Granted, it's only for fun, but part of the fun is seeing how your times stack up.

The problem with the timer is that it requires all the sensors, computer, gas generator, gas, all the cables, sensor batteries, car battery, and table and chairs. By the time you add up the additional space, you need to bring the trailer. Believe it or not, the stopwatch isn't that bad (probably accurate to about 0.1 second). Besides, that the way they use to do it back in the old days!

With the days so short, we have to get in and out quickly so that we're not packing up in the dark.

I figure we have just one big heat with group A and B. We do registration and grid at the lower lot at 9:30 am. Once we have the driver's meeting the walk thru, we start running 4 runs on each group then switch, then repeat and try to finish no later than 4:00 pm.I'll check the organizers this week to see if any of them would be interested in running the event.

I don't think 60 cones would fit in Andrew's Civic. Joe Macinnes has a van. Ed O'Donnell has a minivan, and I have the truck. Between all of us, we might be able to figure out an easy way to transport the cones, walkie talkies, and the kareoke PA.

My guess is that we would only have about 30 people tops that would even show up.

Overall, it would provide enough for some fun, but I could see how most would laugh at us if we relied on this low level of equipment during the normal season.

Ed

[wrathe74]

I'm ready...
and I'm always ready to lend a hand setting up, and tearing down.

[Claff]

I'm kinda glad of the cancellation, I don't like driving Miatas in the rain on the street much less in anger.

I'd like to play in December if my calendar allows.

[mla163]

ok, I guess timing existed before the age of sensors and computers. If there is a system that works within 0.1secs I can live with that.

I'm willing to help/haul/store stuff. I usually have some extra room in the car for cones or equipment.

[Dan133]

Let's go for it, Ed. Sounds like fun!

[saint_foo]

The reason Ed cancels the Bowie events is because he/they don't want to stand in the rain and loose money. Bowie allows you to cancel and not pay, Frederick doesn't. That's why you run in the rain in Frederick and not Bowie. Pre paying will solve several problems with the CDC events at once, like getting home at 8PM when the weather is perfect and everyone shows up for an overbooked event.

Well, from an organizer's standpoint, it's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. Financials aside, if the event turns out to be tornado-like conditions or torrential downpours, it's really miserable unloading everything, trying to keep the electronics dry, and keeping the cover down (pop-up tent etc). I suppose that going forward for 2009 and beyond, if you all realize that we might run with stopwatches and not count the event for the points series, then that's something to consider. If there are thunderstorms expected throughout the day (not just a 5-30 min storm), at what point do you consider cancelling the event? I know swimming pools evacuate the pool at the first sign of lightning, then resume ~30 mins after the last sighting. Do we do the same?

There's varying levels of dedication and we can't make everyone happy. We probably have the best safety record amongst organizations in the local region because we are cautious. If folks want to express their opinions on how we should handle these events going forward, please chime in. If you're feeling gung-ho (aka FredK), then I expect you to be at all the ones you signed up for! We shouldn't hear any "aw heck, it's raining and my Cobra/Miata can't get wet."

So, are folks okay with:

- not cancelling the event and running w/ stopwatches if we have to?
- prepaying with no refund (maybe if you don't cancel by Thursday)?
- pausing the event if there's thunder/lightning? And cancelling the remainder if it seems like it won't let up any time soon?

Just would like to hear some feedback.

[mp923]

rain/snow/sleet i'd love to drive! The logistics, however, vary from other clubs. I remember a philli autox inc event last year (I want to say it was at ripken) where the weather was terrible. Rain, cold, and wind made for fun driving and working but it was bearable only because everyone stayed in their cars between heats. The organizers also had a big trailer for warmth and a loudspeaker to communicate to the outside (not that I could hear it anyway, but i later found out they broadcast announcements on the radio).

Consider the fact that we park in a different lot at Harry Grove and behind the timing tent at Bowie. Calling people for heats while they stay dry in their car will be tricky. I don't think we are adequately prepared (yet!) for a reliable rain/snow autocross.

[mla163]

I think prepaying will help the financial end of things , but maybe not the turnout. How many people get an SCCA season pass and show up for only 50% of the events? I don't mind running in the rain, but if it's 40 degrees and pouring, I'll be at home. Prepay or not.

If stopwatches are as accurate as Ed says, I don't mind running with them. Is there only one watch timing? Or three like a swim meet?

Safety is the number one concern, and it goes without saying that we have to pause in the event of lightning. I don't want to be working in the middle of an open lot during a thunferstorm. I might as well put up a lightning rod.

[kyle.bowker]

The main problem with a rain/snow auto-x is the increased risk of an "incident." There are a thousand good reasons why we are as conservative as we are and only a few good reasons why we would want to push through foul weather to host an event. I'm fine with other, larger clubs like SCCA assuming those risks as they can more easily withstand them thanks to their large nationwide standing and their large pocketbook. It seems that most participants fail to appreciate the threat that our sport faces on a daily basis because of litigation, insurance, lot (un)availability, and zoning restrictions. The organizers try to keep that unpleasant part of the sport away from our members so they can concentrate on having fun and posting good times but we are always mindful of it.

[kyle.bowker]

If stopwatches are as accurate as Ed says, I don't mind running with them. Is there only one watch timing? Or three like a swim meet?

The stopwatches are good to at least 0.1s. We typically run 3 stopwatches in the beginning to find out who has the best reflexes and then switch to 2 as the demand for organizers shifts that human resources elsewhere, like instructing, running the bbq grille, or organizing the grid.