Summit skidpad

[FredK]

I'm wondering if the format Saturday will be the same as the other CDC events, i.e. split heats, working and driving, 3 morning and three afternoon runs. I see their are three heats rather than the usual four. Do they have lights in case it gets dark before we are done?
Fredk

[hepcatz]

I was curious about that too. Also, not having been to Summit Point, where do we meet to register, tech and empty the cars at he track site?

[Gonz]

Good questions.
Don't know about the meeting place. Hopefully they'll post something up. I asked Ed about it earlier.

There will still be "morning" and "afternoon" runs. The heats are larger to reduce the time lost in switching over and to have a bigger worker pool available during each heat. The plan is to have two cars running at once.

[hepcatz]

How does 2 cars running at once work? How does that effect the workers and the other driver? Damn, hope that doesn't mean a slow newbie like me will be holding somebody up behind..

[echan]

The event at Summit this Saturday will have the following format:

1. Three heats with the usual "A" and "B" lines, with the same split heat format.
2. This lot is VERY LONG. So changing between workers and drivers (and between heats) needs to be done as quickly as possible. The workers need to walk up to 1/4 mile rather than only 300 feet.
3. We will have the usual 3 runs in the morning and 3 runs in the afternoon. As normal, each participant can elect to run "morning only" with 4 runs.
4. The track is located between the Main Track and the Jefferson Circuit. Basically enter the main entrance and head towards the Jefferson Track. Just before you get to the Jefferson, you'll see the Washington Circuit (Triple Skid Pad).
5. We plan to hold registration and tech in the parking lot beside the track (e.g. there's a staging lot that is beside the track.).
6. Remember, this event is $30 for members, $35 for non-members.

[hepcatz]

Ed-

Thanks for the follow up info!

John N

[Wade Chamberlain]

Any bets on how many cars end up "parked" in a dirt circle?

[kyle.bowker]

Weather is looking real nice for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Forecast for Saturday is sunny with temps in the low 70s.

[JoeTR6]

Any bets on how many cars end up "parked" in a dirt circle?

I won't take that bet. Let's just hope there's no such thing as "quickmud".

[MicaCeli]

Might have to drive the Miata on Sat if I don't get my injectors back from witchhunter in time

[saint_foo]

Any bets on how many cars end up "parked" in a dirt circle?

well if you slow down, it shouldn't be a problem.

How about this...who thinks Ernest will end up in the dirt?

I keed, I keed!!! I miss him...haven't seen him this year. I suck.

[hepcatz]

ha ha, as we saw none, although a Cobra came the closest towards the end of the day.

[Wade Chamberlain]

ha ha, as we saw none, although a Cobra came the closest towards the end of the day.

A little ironic, considering who asked the question. My daughter thought it was funny....she doesn't know it yet, but she gets to help clean the 5# of dirt out of the cockpit.

BTW, I'm curious how folks liked this venue. I like the location (close to me)....like the lot...really liked the course.....*HATED* the varying levels of grip between the different pavement sections and the overall sliperyness (is that a word?) of the site. The talc-like layer of silt certainly didn't help, but even toward the end of the day it was still crazy slippery. I can usually pull about 1.1G acceleration, 1.2-1.3 braking, and 1.4 cornering on a good lot. Yesterday, the best I could get was 0.6 accel, 0.7 brake, and 1.19 cornering (cornering # was on the somewhat grippy lower end skidpad).

I'm not bitching...any sunny day spent on the autocross course is a good one. I'm just curious if others were as frustrated w/ the surface as I was. I know the AWD guys (Francois) were pleased. haha

[BugBomb]

We definitely want to hear everyone's opinion on the event and what they would suggest for another auto-x at this lot. The future is really up in the air, and we need feedback to help us proceed.

Personally (Disclaimer: This is not the view of the club in general), I thought it was a complete mess but with possible potential. At it's best, I think there would still be issues with varying grip levels on different parts of the course. This could make for interesting and challenging course designs but the slippery compound seems to be in a few too many areas. I would love to give it a second chance, but I would rather it be in a more complete state, like with grass on the medians.

[Jim Harris]

We definitely want to hear everyone's opinion on the event and what they would suggest for another auto-x at this lot. The future is really up in the air, and we need feedback to help us proceed.

Personally (Disclaimer: This is not the view of the club in general), I thought it was a complete mess but with possible potential. At it's best, I think there would still be issues with varying grip levels on different parts of the course. This could make for interesting and challenging course designs but the slippery compound seems to be in a few too many areas. I would love to give it a second chance, but I would rather it be in a more complete state, like with grass on the medians.

Well, it was obvious I couldn't make the Mustang work. I couldn't use the throttle anywhere, even on the relatively less sandy portions, and my ABS kept intruding to make matters worse. On the right hand turn leading into the slalom at the far end, I literally had no brakes on any of my runs. No throttle plus no brakes makes for a very weird autox experience-- kind of pointless in my case. I think I'm going to wait until I see some progress on the site before I go back.

I wondered if maybe a couple of guys armed with gas-powered leaf blowers are what is needed to clear the surface. It might not be sufficient, but it's worth trying.

Jim
Mustang Bullitt in need of grip

[mla163]

I think the venue is great, and will be better once the grass is seeded and the deck is installed. The surface was very hard to get grip on, and I don't know if there is anything that can be done about it. It was like driving in the wet, only I get more traction in the wet. On some sections, the car was completely plowing. In the finish, I completely lost traction and it was all ABS into the stop garage. It did not get faster in the afternoon. Some spots were so slick it was like driving in snow.

[hepcatz]

I liked it a lot too although it is quite the drive from nova area. It was like a mini road course which was different and for newer folks (like me) like it was easly to have the course down just from the walk. It seemed to be slippery from both the dirt and being new asphalt maybe. Between that and the islands of mud I personally didn't push too hard so I sat in the 59 area the whole time. Once grass is in I think it will be a great place. I agree, I'd rather being ax-ing at a bad place then not at all! Wade, bets of luck with the cleaning, thanks for the show. =) You were kind enough to wait until heat 1 was finished, thanks. On a serious note, after watching you & the others I will definately be asking for a ride along in a Corbra at a future event, it has got to be a blast.

[JoeTR6]

I think Wade wins the "farmer" award for the event. The prize is a push broom to be attached to the front of his Cobra.

Overall, the lot worked out better than I expected. There was some concern about not being able to see the entire lot from timing, but corner workers really stepped up. If that venue is to work, I think we're going to need 3 (maybe 4?) cars on course at the same time. With a fairly high probably of spin-outs, that scares me a little. The varying asphalt friction was definitely a challenge. There's nothing like 4 wheel drifting when you don't expect it. OTOH, I really liked the twisty bits and the skid pad at the far end. Good job on the course, Ted. Gridding and the overall heat layout needs some thought.

I hope it doesn't bother anyone too much if we avoid running an event there while it's raining. If you really want to try ice racing, move to Canada.

[hepcatz]

Forgot to mention, thanks again to the CDC organizing staff for another good time!

[defylogik]

We definitely want to hear everyone's opinion on the event and what they would suggest for another auto-x at this lot. The future is really up in the air, and we need feedback to help us proceed.

Personally (Disclaimer: This is not the view of the club in general), I thought it was a complete mess but with possible potential. At it's best, I think there would still be issues with varying grip levels on different parts of the course. This could make for interesting and challenging course designs but the slippery compound seems to be in a few too many areas. I would love to give it a second chance, but I would rather it be in a more complete state, like with grass on the medians.

Best venue yet Be better when there is some grass

some video on my vimeo:
http://www.vimeo.com/4218305

[Dan133]

This will be a great venue when there is grass to keep the very slippery dust down. That being said I could not seem to get traction even with the massive horsepower available in my 1.8 ltr Miata. Also-- After 3 or 4 years learning to make a car go around 90 and 120 degree corners I can see that I now have to learn how to go around bends at speed(which it turns out requires much more finesse).

[milkmandan]

I thought it was a fantastic venue, my car didn't have very many traction problems once the "dry" line was established in the afternoon. With some changes to the griding (maybe switch start and stop locations?), I think will go very smoothly next time.

[FredK]

I thought you guys did a great job organizing and putting on the event. That said I'd have rather stayed home and mowed my grass, my only objective all day was to try to find some screwy line that might result in a slight amount of traction somewhere. The poor grading of the lot will always result in standing puddles after rain, which even with some grass is going to result in silty sediment pond type areas that will be almost impossible to get clean. I won't even mention the seal coat areas.

I always have fun at any autocross, it's a good thing I enjoyed the company 'cause the autocrossing sucked. I did suck too. I was loooking forward to this event as much or more than any this year. I also enjoyed the huge pile of dirt that Wade laid down in front of me, it's the little things I guess.
Fred

[bugman1964]

I enjoyed the lot in the afternoon for the most part the morning was not so much fun. The varying degrees of grip could be made to work for my self if I set it up right and started weight shifting before the grip levels changed and used it to get more grip or rotation out of the car. The skid pad at the far end was great and I wish I would have pushed a little harder down there.

Over all I think it was a success and would have been better if we didn't have to sweep the track. However it would have been even better had summit not put the adhesion compound down for the drifters. When I was there back in january, even in the ice it was hard to get things to break lose in my car, when there wasn't any compound on the track. Maybe summit will be nice and just pave over a huge parking lot and well just use that.

[Gonz]

Running on street tires in a 2001 Miata, I didn't think the traction was that bad. Only the pavement just before the first slalom kept surprising me into a near spin a few times.

It seems that the guys who run on R comps, particularly A6 or V710s can't get enough heat in the tire to get them to start gripping. On ordinary street tires (Kumho SPT) I thought the grip was OK. Certainly better than Harry Grove on a rainy day.

I had fun on the course and it was a great opportunity for practicing to balance the car. The switchover & gridding routine needs to be worked on to save A LOT of down time.