Format improvement ideas for Autocross day.

[T ARE 6]

Hopefully this isn't a topic that is already started somewhere that I'm missing. If it is - please feel free to smack me and move this post.

What all would be required to run a second tech inspection later on in the day?
More Volunteers?
I would hope we could make that happen.
If you need the trusted core people to do the tech inspection and second driver's meeting - then the volunteers could run the grille, and man the timing tent (with a little training)


Obviously this would be of benefit to the people in the last heat of the day who are still required to get to the course at 8AM, but may not do their first run until well after noon and their last runs after 5PM.

What all problems can crop up with doing a second tech inspection/driver's meeting?

Is a walk through of the course REQUIRED? Seems like watching the other cars run would suffice.
Is not knowing how many people are showing up for heat 4 (and possibly 3) going to cause problems?
Would you allow people to run ONLY the afternoon runs? (or would that screw up planning?)
Would you have to worry about people "cherry picking" based on the weather. (an overcast day turns into one with periods of light rain and no one shows up for heat 4)

Scott

[bugman1964]

The only issue I can for see with people showing up or not showing up late is the registration fees, and knowing if you'll have enough to cover the lot. However this could be solved with a prepayment due at time of signing up. This may also cut back some of the no shows we get, like the 30 from the last sp event.

[wrathe74]

aww Bugman1964 said the "pre-payment" word! *grin*

The Pre-payment idea/option has been a mixed bag of worms. We all know it should be done for so many reasons ..... but I belive they don't do it for the very reason of no-shows and *cringe* rain outs so that CDC has flexibility.

I've talked on my soapbox enough in other threads...so before I get shot lol ....

[bugman1964]

yeah there are alot of concerns and side issues that go with prepayment. but unfortunately it's the only way to protect the club from no shows. Especially if they are counting on X many cars showing up to be abel to pay for the lot and then a bunch don't show in the afternoon it could be really bad. As far as rain-outs go if the event was canceled registration just rolls over to the next event.

[Gonz]

It would be nice if the 4th heat drivers didnt' have to be there at 8:30 AM since they usually aren't on the course until after 12:30 PM.

For me, that's the biggest drawback to the current format.

[Nihilation]

Waiting around for hours before you can run your first heat is also my biggest complaint. Why can't they keep registration and tech open in a small part of the course up until the beginning of the last or second to last morning heat? It shouldn't take more than 1-2 people to do it. If you can't show up before registration closes then too bad, so sad.

Driver's meeting. Really? This isn't an HPDE. If you can't remember what a red flag means, you shouldn't be out there anyway. How do you verify that they know what each flag means? Have them match colors to flag definitions on the sign-in form. Done, and you have their John Hancock.

If you want to be able to walk the course, show up at 8AM. Make announcements throughout the morning for newbs who need assistance to meet at the tent. And while recommending instructors is cool, then again, it's autocross, not HPDE. Any experienced autocrosser will be able to help them.

Pre-payment? I'm down for that. Registration will go quicker.

[hepcatz]

I would disagree, with first time autocross participants at every event, a driver's meeting is important. Not very realistic to expect a newbie to know what a red flag means as I bet many haven't delved into a large amount of AX research beforehand. It is also a good way to relay info to experienced folks that is new or pertains to that specific event. I think instructors are best for newbies again because they will feel less intimidated asking an instructor for help than an experienced particiant. Also, who's to say an experienced person is good at teaching? they're two different things.

I agree that runing as much as possible would be great, however there is something to be said for down time allowing you to check your car, watch other drivers, talk with fellow club members, eat/piss, etc. I would like to have a club or group feel, have folks know me by name.

[sandberg84]

To me I agree in principal that it is a pain to wait so long between tech and heat 3 or 4, the alternatives are not a lot better. with the biggest obstatcle being the track walk with the current format there is no time for folks to walk out on the course and mosey around it between heats as the event really motors along. but If they show up late you can bet that after their drivers meeting they will demand a course walk or just walk out onto the course enmass (safety in numbers) before they get their cars to the grid. this will add considerably to the time of the event.

the only altrenative I see is to use the BMW format of having two heats one in the am one in the pm four runs total witha course walk and drivers meeting before each heat. this clearly reduces the amount of driving time it also makes it harder ride with your friend as you are both driving at the same time. (currently we can be one heat apart and work and drive together.

[Imprezive_04]

IMHO CDC should stick to what makes them different from other clubs. The current format lends it self to a club atmostphere with mingling and oppurtunities for ride alongs.

[mf44]

IMHO CDC should stick to what makes them different from other clubs. The current format lends it self to a club atmostphere with mingling and oppurtunities for ride alongs.

I second this!

[mla163]

IMHO CDC should stick to what makes them different from other clubs. The current format lends it self to a club atmostphere with mingling and oppurtunities for ride alongs.

this

And there is no way that CDC could run an event without a driver's meeting and walkthru. There are individual exceptions, but these are important safety concerns.

SCCA is an assembly line. They are very efficient, but it is not a social setting.

[Dan133]

Absolutely!! The socializing and club atmosphere makes a day at the autox much more enjoyable than it would otherwise be.

[cutaway]

I like the format, but hate getting up too early. Too many things to forget like bringing cash. I want to prepay.

[bugman1964]

And there is no way that CDC could run an event without a driver's meeting and walkthru. There are individual exceptions, but these are important safety concerns.

SCCA is an assembly line. They are very efficient, but it is not a social setting.

I agree with both of these points. A safety talk is a must no matter how many times you have gone to a race, there is just to much liability to skip it.

But the option to prepay via paypal or something of the sort would be nice since I usually have to make a special trip to pull out cash since I dont usually carry it. but they could still have payment at the event. Maybe 2 lines at registration. One for prepayment one for cash.

[defylogik]

puhlease no format changes.

[Jim Harris]

The format is fine as is for most of us (though please more hot dogs, DIET sodas, and water).

[The_Bishop]

Definitely think the driver's meeting is a must. There are a number of things discussed in a driver's meeting besides the meaning of flags. It's good we all hear the reminders. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff happen on the course concerning the judgement of workers. It's no contest, we have the driver's meeting, full stop.

Definitely a fan of the present format and the club atmosphere created by it. I have to drive an hour-plus to get to the events I attend with CDC, so I plan to make a day of it regardless. It's a nice escape to lay down the real world for a bit to play racecar driver for a day.

Gonna give a big +1 for the Paypal idea.

More sodas and water = more empty soda cans and water bottles. With all the other responsibilites and organization considerations for each event, is someone managing the recycling of these? I normally travel past public recycling drop-off points on my way home from events, but the elise will only hold one bag of cans/bottles (that is if I'm not carrying a passenger).

- Allen.

[T ARE 6]

Waiting around for hours before you can run your first heat is also my biggest complaint. Why can't they keep registration and tech open in a small part of the course up until the beginning of the last or second to last morning heat?

I think the important part of that question is "WHY"
My guess is that the answer is: because they need volunteers.

So step up folks.

I don't come to every autocross, as a matter of fact, I only make it out to a handful each season.
But in all seriousness, for the ones I am signed up for -go ahead and give me a task to do on race day.

Maybe that's easier for me to say because I don't do much in the way of car prep and most of the time I don't have a group of friends participating or tagging along to events, so I'm kind of itching for something to do before / between my runs.

Scott

[hepcatz]

I second that! Although new and I probably won't make it to every event, I plan on attemding a lot & would also welcome any task to assist or learn in addition to the normal course working.

John

[bugman1964]

so from the sounds of it though a lot of people would support a paypal option for pre-payment.

[hepcatz]

Sure, then you don't have to remember to swing by an atm. Spare change can be saved for: food, merchandise or the help John go faster charity fund... laugh!

John N

[mf44]

Sure, then you don't have to remember to swing by an atm. Spare change can be saved for: food, merchandise or the help John go faster charity fund... laugh!

John N

Is there any CDC merchandise available? That'd be cool.

[hepcatz]

There are some shirts and hats, etc. search on the site, I think I've seen some pictures somewhere. You can buy them at the events.

[WRX11]

I would disagree, with first time autocross participants at every event, a driver's meeting is important. Not very realistic to expect a newbie to know what a red flag means as I bet many haven't delved into a large amount of AX research beforehand. It is also a good way to relay info to experienced folks that is new or pertains to that specific event. I think instructors are best for newbies again because they will feel less intimidated asking an instructor for help than an experienced particiant. Also, who's to say an experienced person is good at teaching? they're two different things.

I agree that runing as much as possible would be great, however there is something to be said for down time allowing you to check your car, watch other drivers, talk with fellow club members, eat/piss, etc. I would like to have a club or group feel, have folks know me by name.

Correct especially for the newbies to the CDC AX events.

Although all AX formats are similar in many ways, there are a few things that makes CDC different. Not all participants are die-hard AXer, which may make them shy away from SCCA type events. Some need more help than others so rather than singling them out at each event, conducting a repeated drivers meetings is best for everyone.

Having said the above, I continue to see some "experienced" CDC participants who takes safety less seriously than we like to see. All it takes is that one time to ruin a good thing.

Assuming everyone preregisters for each event, we'll still see a number of walk-ons and newbies. Instead of changing formats and announcements based on each event participants, a consistent announcements works best to avoid the what ifs.

[bellykat]

...continued then from "SLOW DOWN!", and hopefully in appropriate thread.

1. At the drivers meeting, drivers are asked to remain with their car at grid.

2. Heat grids as nature intended and an organizer walks up each line assigning a work assignment to each person/jots it on their sheet. (1, 2, 3, St, Stp, etc)

~ Fin ~

* No bottlenecked registration, no predetermination of A or B, no gathering for assignments.

* Drivers mill around their cars at grid anyway and Group A drivers are definitely there getting ready at the start of the heat.

* Course is set and number/placement of work stations are known by first heat grid (hopefully

* If you get to where the heat is held up by a worker shortage, a quick flip through sheets will determine exactly who needs to be where rather than making a repeated generic announcement until some poor sweaty schmoe that worked last heat trots out just to keep the day moving.

* Makes it easier for a driver to convey a mobility issue with chasing cones and be directed to a safe spot.

* If there are more drivers than stations/duties, 'n/w' can be jotted on their sheet and they will receive an assignment in the PM and another person can sit out.

* Club's advantage to be able to assign experienced people to stations requiring such.