Co-Drivers

[phranquelynn]

Just wondering how other people share costs when sharing a car for autocross. What's fair for the owner of the car and for the friend who shares driving it. I'm running r comps so tires are quite expensive and my main concern. Thanks!

[echan]

You can just split the cost of a set of tires, since the tires would only be used for autox.

[kyle.bowker]

It depends. Is it a one time deal or just a few times a year? If yes, then I wouldn't worry about the cost and be happy that you're spending quality time with one of your friends having fun. If they are sharing your car for an entire season and they are trying to be competitive then you'll have to work out a deal that reimburses you somehow for the added wear and tear. There is no easy way to calculate this. I suggest some sort of deal that involves copious amounts of booze, cash, and/or loose women but that's just me. Or maybe your friend can return the favor by mowing your lawn all summer long. Figure gas to/at/from the event, a set of tires each season (if you're lucky), regular maintenance and the risk of major expenses like blown transmissions, etc. If you're that worried about the money you should ask yourself whether or not your friendship can withstand whatever might arise during the course of an auto-x season. If you will be buds forever no matter what then you'll be fine. If you think money will tear you apart then suggest to your friend that they get their own ride for auto-x. I hear a bunch of people are buying $500 Miatas to compete in the Small Bore Series.

[moxnix]

Are you providing a setup car or are you working together to set it up?
Does either of you provide additional skills/services to the car/autox?(installation of parts, better driver helping the other learn, data acquisition, setup knowledge) All those can be a factor in pricing.
For a single event I have paid/been paid anywhere from nothing(local events) to $150+(national events in a decently setup car) with steps in between of hey buy me a sandwich for lunch or let me run your car sometime or co-driver paying owner entry fee.

I am assuming that this is a local season long deal.
For the season I have heard deals like.
Co-driver buys tires, owner provides setup car.
Tires split, co-driver pays entry fees.
Tires split, set amount paid to owner to cover car costs.
Everything autox related split (tires, wheels, alignments, shocks)
Co-driver pays set amount per run to owner, owner provides everything.

[hepcatz]

Kyle- We have got to set up a co-driving deal! booze, cash and women... laugh

I think it is something the two of you will have to work out and settle on your own. You've got some good advice already depending on the circumstances.

[ButtDyno]

I'll find my own codriver, with blackjack, and hookers...

[phranquelynn]

so, here's the breakdown of our situation. I have a 2000 Miata as my daily driver. Then I put another $2500 into wheels, tires, suspension, sway bars, etc. to make it the top (or almost top) of c stock. There was a guy (now a friend) at one of the ax events who was really interested in autocrossing but didn't have a car. I thought to be nice and offer a trade of driving the car for an event for my entry fee. Now we've become friends and he's interested in co-driving the car for the entire upcoming season. We'll both be doing one scca club's entire season. I'll be running with another club also so I'll be using the car 2/3 and my friend 1/3 for autocross purposes. We're trying to work something out that's fair for both of us. I'm running r comps that cost me about $600. Add in extra oil changes, alignment, etc. to keep the car maintained for autocrossing. I'd like to recover maintenance costs and wear and tear on the car (especially the tires). And also perhaps something fair on me spending hours on looking for parts and installing them and getting the car ready. Thanks for all the input so far!

[hepcatz]

Sounds like you already have it figured out, split all costs 2/3- 1/3 with him assisting in sourcing parts and setup. If he doesn't want to help source and setup (don't know why he wouldn't) then maybe 50%-50%.

[DaveL20]

You also need to take into consideration what happens if he wrecks the car.

Very unlikely but can and has happened. I would make sure you have something in writting. Check with some of the guys on the NASA site about what kind of agreements they get people to sign off on as far as damage.

I have seen a friendship or 2 disolve quickly over a car getting damaged.

I would split the cost of the tires with him. You were going to have to change the oil, get it aligned, ect anyway. Him putting the extra runs on the tires is the most wear and tear you will have and biggest cost.

[saint_foo]

All great suggestions.

For me, I figured roughly how much each year would cost in terms of:

1) Tires to be raced on. Would I daily-drive them? yes. Factor a little less for my personal wear-and-tear.
2) Oil changes, tranny flushes (I do every year b/c of the abuse factor), coolant, etc. Basic maintenance costs. Plus, factor in labor. Do you take it to a shop? Do you have co-driver assist in the garage?
3) How comfortable do you know your co-driver? An acquaintance? Friend? Boss at work?
4) What happened "IF" something happened...like blowing a motor, tranny problems, etc. How would you determine if it was normal mechanical failure, an accident, abuse, etc.? A written contract (even simple) would be a good idea. Heck, go to your bank/credit union and get it notarized. I think that's legal, right? If not, my bad. Personally, I've got verbal agreements w/ my co-drivers (the regular ones, not the remaining lot of you).

-Ed O

[FredK]

I always thought that the slow guy with the money lets the fast guy who's broke break his car for free.That's how it works at SCCA anyway. Car owner usually buys lunch too.
Fredk

[jmac]

I usually let the guy who's driving my car trailer it in an air condition truck to the event, buy lunch and drive home so I can drown my sorrows with a few cold ones at dinner. Then I take a nap on the way home. I also hope he's the one who spews oil everywhere and not me.

[hepcatz]

Wow jmac, you let your co-drivers off easy with the better bargain. You should at a minimum also get: a personal masseuse, 30 hours of paid shop time a month, season tickets to the Caps & 2 private screenings of theater new releases a year.

[jmac]

I forgot, you have to do all the work on the car also.

[xph34rt3hr34p3r]

I guess I just really lucked out. I was invited to a CDC event last year by some co-workers and enjoyed it so much that I wanted to participate this year. Unfortunately all I had to run was my Toyota Tacoma Fortunately for me though one of those same co-workers, Imprezive_04 (Ryan), had recently purchased a 1991 Miata to fix up for AutoX events. However, because he just can't kick the addiction to his STi, he has allowed me to drive the Miata to "work out the bugs."

During the last two events in Frederick and Summit we've effectively cracked the radiator and damaged the thermostat housing, aka "working out the bugs." I've offered to help pay for replacements but so far all Ryan has accepted has been a 24 pack of Miller Lite and some garage time. As a matter of fact I'm heading up to his place tonight to help get the timing belt/cam gears/etc back on after replacing the TSH. Hopefully we're running by Saturday or else I'm back to being a spectator again!

But in your case I'd say you've got a good scenario figured out. 1/3 the cost of what's going to be used isn't unreasonable especially considering the wear on the tires and cost of general maintenance if you're doing all the work yourself. As far as a "what if he wrecks it" deal I'd say that is an unfortunate consequence based more on trust, luck and how much of a risk taker you are. For me personally, having the opportunity to drive Ryan's Miata the past two events has convinced me to buy my own AutoX car (I'm actively browsing as we speak ) so hopefully next month I'll be "working out the bugs" on my own car. But I don't really see how I ever would have gotten to this point without Ryan giving me the chance. Hopefully you're friend will feel the same way and be encouraged soon to start his own project.

[jmac]

I think most autocrossers enjoy setting up and working on the car as much as they enjoy driving. I've been autocrossing most of my life and it's a great way to meet new people that sharethe car interest. It's good to have you hooked.