7/25 Woodbridge autox photos, etc

[edfooliu]

First up, some photos to possibly put folks in a good mood before I lay down the flame bait... pretty much just first heat morning session. A couple third heat, but that'll teach me to charge batteries the night before...
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edfooliu/s ... 702287627/
Video of my last run: http://www.facebook.com/v/784313716918

Now that was an interesting course. For me it was basically a huge exercise in self-control...the (extremely. painfully.) slow, technical bookends to the fast middle were so very easy to overdrive after getting into rhythm through the fast&wide offsets and slaloms. I enjoyed the challenge, but boy was that mentally difficult...

I've one complaint/opinion/observation... I think there were way, way too many cones after the final decreasing radius turnaround to come back towards the finish. I would venture to say about 2/3 of the gates where completely irrelevant to the course (on a straight, you only _need_ two gates to define the endpoints, not...5..). I understand that sucker cones and off-line cones are part of every autocross course, but in this case I think it was really a safety hazard--mitigated only by the fact that it was such a low-speed section. The sheer density of cones in that area was visually overwhelming, confusing a lot of people and causing a LOT of DNFs.

Again, reading a course--even a confusing section--is part of what makes autocross challenging and fun. I have no beef with that. Nor am I complaining about it being too tight and too slow. My issue is when an inordinate number of drivers DNF their first--and second...and sometimes third--runs at the same feature near worker stations, curbs, and spectators when the boundaries of the course could be laid out with (probably) half the cones. Visually tricky features should punish drivers with lost time, not off-course excursions where 'controlled environment' starts to lose a little meaning, and I think this could've been accomplished simply with cone placement without changing the course layout in any way.

Flame on?

[hepcatz]

Here are my photos from today's event: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gohmchin/s ... 703712053/

Had a blast as always, thanks to everyone for setting it up. There were a lot of cones in that area & it got me one time... Very challenging & technical; I liked the course. It would be perfect for an event with a TNT involved to get more time perfecting the varied mixture of that layout. so nice to have a locale in NOVA. I'll get the photos over into the CDC pool soon as well. my air compressor broke but luckily right after I finished inflating my tires. Sheesh, they don't make $19 compressors like they used to! next time there it will be much better not having to jog (or scoot if you are Ed) to the next county for a port a potty.

[evolicious]

Sorry for the no show today. I got that damn pork flu and had to go to the hospital last night. F'n sucked. Not a great way to start the weekend. I hope everybody had fun and a good time today. The weather seemed nice (from inside).
Not going to be able to make it next weekend due to a wedding. I will see everybody in a few weeks I guess. Have fun and be safe. Time to go back to bed and try to recover.

[Beepbeep]

That was definitely a fun course today! I would agree with lot that it was indeed a very technical course, and I welcome the challenge of the sea of cones. I understand quite a few were confused from seeing a lot of cones on the second half, but I thought that it serves very good visual challenged .

Good jod CDC crew!

[echan]

Now that was an interesting course. For me it was basically a huge exercise in self-control...the (extremely. painfully.) slow, technical bookends to the fast middle were so very easy to overdrive after getting into rhythm through the fast&wide offsets and slaloms. I enjoyed the challenge, but boy was that mentally difficult...

I've one complaint/opinion/observation... I think there were way, way too many cones after the final decreasing radius turnaround to come back towards the finish. I would venture to say about 2/3 of the gates where completely irrelevant to the course (on a straight, you only _need_ two gates to define the endpoints, not...5..). I understand that sucker cones and off-line cones are part of every autocross course, but in this case I think it was really a safety hazard--mitigated only by the fact that it was such a low-speed section. The sheer density of cones in that area was visually overwhelming, confusing a lot of people and causing a LOT of DNFs.

Flame on?

I totally understand your comment. That was also my comment to Larry and Richard when they were setting up the course. However, they felt that it was important to keep the cars in a tight line and slow them down to the stop garage to ensure a safe low speed into stop. Also slow them down before they exit to the access road and back to grid. The other place where the sea of cones was on the second half at the turn around. Richard and Larry's felt that they wanted to ensure the the cars did not go beyond the line of cones. As you might have noticed the lot borders with a concrete curb (unlike Harry Grove where the lot boarders grass). So in both cases, all the cones were place there for safety concerns. Yes, more that I would have thought got lost, but overall I think the masive amount of cones on both ends (and even more than averge everywhere else) seemed to be a good thing.

While this is probably my favorite site, the course designer have the most difficulty designing courses due the layout of the lot, the curbs, and the light poles.

I enjoyed the course a lot more than I thought I would. I was very skeptical about the slow portions but after I drove it, I really liked the mixture of fast and slow. I think everyone has to admit that that course was completely different from the norm and it worked completely different parts of the brain. I can see how it was a course that you either loved of hated it. Most importanly, I think the course was a very safe course.

My personal feeling is that all the gates didn't have to be the 14' minimal distance. I probably would have made the gates a little wider. However, it was a good change from the same old type of course and much more challenging. Overall, I liked the course and more importantanly it was safe and added variety (I've heard many comment that we need more variety and that many of our courses are starting to look similar to each other).

[Harry]

Ed, Ed, et al:

Great event today! I thought the course was interesting and challenging. Like someone said, an exercise in self-control to reign in the go-fast parts to make the two tight 180's. The "driver's ed" part of the course was not very fun to start with but grew on me. Love the nickname, tho

By the afternoon heat, both me and my front tires were wilting but still had a good time; even the food was good (Thanks Ed, good to talk to you again).

And a big thanks for all the pix of the dirty black wagon! I'll post some vids after I get them flipped (lame suction mount can only hold the camera upside down )

- Harry (#401)

[flohtingPoint]

Here are my photos from today's event: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gohmchin/s ... 703712053/

Had a blast as always, thanks to everyone for setting it up. There were a lot of cones in that area & it got me one time... Very challenging & technical; I liked the course. It would be perfect for an event with a TNT involved to get more time perfecting the varied mixture of that layout. so nice to have a locale in NOVA. I'll get the photos over into the CDC pool soon as well. my air compressor broke but luckily right after I finished inflating my tires. Sheesh, they don't make $19 compressors like they used to! next time there it will be much better not having to jog (or scoot if you are Ed) to the next county for a port a potty.

Nice, you got a couple shots of my rolla =)

I had a blast today. New tires, not even pre-scuffed, cut their teeth on my first run, so I was grasping to understand their breaking points, but the first half of the course was perfect for that with the high speed sections followed by heavy breaking. Second half of the course was excellent, granted I'm a bit bias as the low speed sections are where my antique vehicle can still remain competitive =P

[MazdaSC]

I must say I really enjoyed the course, it had a few areas that were a little overwhelming visually but was a much better layout than the last event and had a good variety of sections. This my last and best run I thought I heard 45.23 on the announcement but my time sheet showed 45.30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEsBjYAbfu0

[echan]

I must say I really enjoyed the course, it had a few areas that were a little overwhelming visually but was a much better layout than the last event and had a good variety of sections. This my last and best run I thought I heard 45.23 on the announcement but my time sheet showed 45.30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEsBjYAbfu0

You should go by the timesheet. I try to announce the times correctly. However, sometimes I say the digits incorrectly. The scribe writes the time as displayed on the computer screen and has much more time to get it correctly.

[hepcatz]

James,

Nice run & vid. Good to meet you (to put a face to the name), we'll see you at other events with the NC.
John

[Braineack]

I must say I really enjoyed the course, it had a few areas that were a little overwhelming visually but was a much better layout than the last event and had a good variety of sections. This my last and best run I thought I heard 45.23 on the announcement but my time sheet showed 45.30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEsBjYAbfu0

Listen again to the second time they announce it at 0:56

my fastest run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNyM4RQ9mY


and my pics: http://www.boostedmiata.com/autox/7-25-09/

sorry no fancy Flikr account.

[mla163]

The course and line were nice and challenging. My girlfriend autocrossed for the first time and she had a great time.

I agree that the cones on the "driver's ed" portion of the course could have been laid out differently. The line was fine, but the lateral spacing of the cones was the same as the longitudinal spacing of cones. A "sea of cones" is the slang for it. So, it was not apparent when to turn and when to go straight. I understand the reasoning for the layout, but unless you had the backside memorized, it was impossible to easily see the course while driving it.

I see a few ways that could have made that easier:

-Space the cones farther apart (less cones, but might be easier to go off)
-Space the cones closer together (more cones, but the line is better defined)
-Line the edges of this portion with flour/chalk (I have never seen this done in practice and find it largely unnecessary, but it would have reduced the amount of cones and made the course easier to follow. )
-Use more pointer cones

Also, the stop box was a little short. Even though the finish was pretty short, a few folks overshot it and ended up in the street. An easy resolution would have been to be to move the finish in further and/or mark it better so people know when to slow down.

Lastly, I'm not sure if everyone noticed, but a cop stopped by and noted that people were speeding down Spriggs after leaving the event. While a few speeding tickets should slow down the overexcited drivers after the events, it shines a bad light on the club and could push us out of this venue. Respect the neighborhood, get it out on course.

[MazdaSC]

Listen again to the second time they announce it at 0:56

He was talking about my prevoius best time of the day.

[hepcatz]

Don't worry too much about the cop, he actually stopped by to visit as a friend. He had given out a speeding ticket earlier on the road so your point about all participants being careful & respectful is well needed as a reminder!

John N

The course and line were nice and challenging. My girlfriend autocrossed for the first time and she had a great time.

I agree that the cones on the "driver's ed" portion of the course could have been laid out differently. The line was fine, but the lateral spacing of the cones was the same as the longitudinal spacing of cones. A "sea of cones" is the slang for it. So, it was not apparent when to turn and when to go straight. I understand the reasoning for the layout, but unless you had the backside memorized, it was impossible to easily see the course while driving it.

I see a few ways that could have made that easier:

-Space the cones farther apart (less cones, but might be easier to go off)
-Space the cones closer together (more cones, but the line is better defined)
-Line the edges of this portion with flour/chalk (I have never seen this done in practice and find it largely unnecessary, but it would have reduced the amount of cones and made the course easier to follow. )
-Use more pointer cones

Also, the stop box was a little short. Even though the finish was pretty short, a few folks overshot it and ended up in the street. An easy resolution would have been to be to move the finish in further and/or mark it better so people know when to slow down.

Lastly, I'm not sure if everyone noticed, but a cop stopped by and noted that people were speeding down Spriggs after leaving the event. While a few speeding tickets should slow down the overexcited drivers after the events, it shines a bad light on the club and could push us out of this venue. Respect the neighborhood, get it out on course.

[tj06sti]

Thanks for everything! Might suggest waiting until cars are nearer the speakers before announcing their times after runs, or have someone just for that info to drivers.

TJ

[hepcatz]

Sometimes you can miss the announcement, though usually I can hear. If in doubt, you can walk over to the timing tent and look on your sheet after your heat or when you pick it up after the AM runs.

[leadfootgirl]

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to take and post photos of our events:) It really is appreciated!

And thanks to the organizers. First time to this site - and while I love the layout and everything - just hate the distance from my house that’s my problem – not yours.

I loved the track, and while the cones at the end were a little confusing – I think I managed. I’ll just chalk it up to part of the fun of the course.

Two observations about working though:

We had considerably less workers in the 2nd round than the 1st round. I realize there are some people who do morning only – but there weren’t THAT many that left were there?

Also, having worked in the middle – if you’re going to have two halves of the course and two cars running at the same time – you will need at least 2 people at every station to watch both sides. It was rather comical (in retrospect) but extremely aggravating to not have seen where a cone was moved – and then figure out where it came from. Further, everyone offering non-specific directions into the radio also doesn’t help. When there are 6 people on the radio (at various points) and everyone is saying, ‘over there’ and I’m not looking at you – that doesn’t really help me understand where the cone came from. Granted, this was a pretty freak move – as the car managed to move the cone from the middle of the first bend – into the middle of the first slalom… but they also clipped a cone on the 2nd slalom that I missed since I was trying to figure out where a random cone just popped up on the course from. Still – 2 workers, one for each side so that you can watch the entire course would be helpful. That or just tell cars to stop hitting cones:D

However, I may have been upset if I were in heat 4 and waited 3+ hours to run the first track after having to tech at 8am. Perhaps an afternoon/ mid-morning tech is not a bad idea?

Overall, it was a great day and pretty fluid. Like the parking lot a lot. Organizers did a great job. My only regret was missing the photo op of Ed on the scooter.

[echan]

We had considerably less workers in the 2nd round than the 1st round. I realize there are some people who do morning only – but there weren’t THAT many that left were there?

Also, having worked in the middle – if you’re going to have two halves of the course and two cars running at the same time – you will need at least 2 people at every station to watch both sides. It was rather comical (in retrospect) but extremely aggravating to not have seen where a cone was moved – and then figure out where it came from. Further, everyone offering non-specific directions into the radio also doesn’t help. When there are 6 people on the radio (at various points) and everyone is saying, ‘over there’ and I’m not looking at you – that doesn’t really help me understand where the cone came from. Granted, this was a pretty freak move – as the car managed to move the cone from the middle of the first bend – into the middle of the first slalom… but they also clipped a cone on the 2nd slalom that I missed since I was trying to figure out where a random cone just popped up on the course from. Still – 2 workers, one for each side so that you can watch the entire course would be helpful. That or just tell cars to stop hitting cones:D

However, I may have been upset if I were in heat 4 and waited 3+ hours to run the first track after having to tech at 8am. Perhaps an afternoon/ mid-morning tech is not a bad idea?

Overall, it was a great day and pretty fluid. Like the parking lot a lot. Organizers did a great job. My only regret was missing the photo op of Ed on the scooter.

Yes, we had a lot of people leave after their morning runs. Many told us ahead of time that they were morning only and some dropped out with only 3 morning runs. We typically see this higher drop out rate when the weather is really hot and humid (I don't blame them). By the time we got done with heat 2, we saw very few left int he parking lot. So we combined heat 3 and 4. That help make things move faster and didn't make heat 4 wait even longer.

We tried to hold a second tech last year, but it requires more organizers, and less than 10 participants opted for a late tech (e.g. show up at 9am for driver's meeting and walk thru and tech afterwards). In the end, it just made it more difficult for the organizers. In general, if we hold a separate driver's meeting and allowed participants to show up at 12, we would get more interested. However, that would seriously reduce seat time and we would not be able to offer a minimum of 6 runs. Currnetly, heat 4 is mostly populated with non-members, organizers, members that signed up late, and those that live near the lot and are willing to take heat 4. In the end, membership has it's advanatages.

[flohtingPoint]

We had considerably less workers in the 2nd round than the 1st round. I realize there are some people who do morning only – but there weren’t THAT many that left were there?

Also, having worked in the middle – if you’re going to have two halves of the course and two cars running at the same time – you will need at least 2 people at every station to watch both sides. It was rather comical (in retrospect) but extremely aggravating to not have seen where a cone was moved – and then figure out where it came from. Further, everyone offering non-specific directions into the radio also doesn’t help. When there are 6 people on the radio (at various points) and everyone is saying, ‘over there’ and I’m not looking at you – that doesn’t really help me understand where the cone came from. Granted, this was a pretty freak move – as the car managed to move the cone from the middle of the first bend – into the middle of the first slalom… but they also clipped a cone on the 2nd slalom that I missed since I was trying to figure out where a random cone just popped up on the course from. Still – 2 workers, one for each side so that you can watch the entire course would be helpful. That or just tell cars to stop hitting cones:D

However, I may have been upset if I were in heat 4 and waited 3+ hours to run the first track after having to tech at 8am. Perhaps an afternoon/ mid-morning tech is not a bad idea?

Overall, it was a great day and pretty fluid. Like the parking lot a lot. Organizers did a great job. My only regret was missing the photo op of Ed on the scooter.

Yes, we had a lot of people leave after their morning runs. Many told us ahead of time that they were morning only and some dropped out with only 3 morning runs. We typically see this higher drop out rate when the weather is really hot and humid (I don't blame them). By the time we got done with heat 2, we saw very few left int he parking lot. So we combined heat 3 and 4. That help make things move faster and didn't make heat 4 wait even longer.

We tried to hold a second tech last year, but it requires more organizers, and less than 10 participants opted for a late tech (e.g. show up at 9am for driver's meeting and walk thru and tech afterwards). In the end, it just made it more difficult for the organizers. In general, if we hold a separate driver's meeting and allowed participants to show up at 12, we would get more interested. However, that would seriously reduce seat time and we would not be able to offer a minimum of 6 runs. Currnetly, heat 4 is mostly populated with non-members, organizers, members that signed up late, and those that live near the lot and are willing to take heat 4. In the end, membership has it's advanatages.

To add to this, someone who drives an antique vehicle, like myself, enjoys the downtime between tech and their first run. Anyone who owns a car that is as old as mine knows that failures are bound to happen and they happen quite often. Case in point, this past event I had an electrical fan failure which caused me to have to push my car between runs to avoid overheat. If I'd have paid more attention during my overlook before my morning heat, I could have caught this and had plenty of time to repair it.

The time delay also allows new people to meet folks and see how things work well before they have to run. This past event at Summit was my first with CDC and the time between tech and my first out of the gate was used to study the inner-workings of how CDC does things as opposed to SCCA. I also had a chance to chat with folks and discuss strategy, as the folks who attended the event know, it was a bit soggy out here and there were some puddles in close proximity of hard braking areas.

[defylogik]

+1 for the woodbridge lot. Nice going on the organizers part for the good find!

[hepcatz]

Holy crap, since when is an '86 antique?! laugh

[ferris]

Don't worry leadfoot girl ... I have pictures of Ed on the scooter ... I will post them when I get home.

[hepcatz]

Sweet, my basic camera could not cope for high speed photography needed to capture Ed on the scoot. =)

[flohtingPoint]

Holy crap, since when is an '86 antique?! laugh

In a year and a half according to the state of Virginia =P Black plates and no emissions testing, here I come!

[leadfootgirl]

Oh don't get me wrong - i love the social aspect of the club. I like the time I have to sit around and chat with people etc... but at the same time - sometimes, it can get a little long. I don't blame the organizers, I do love the work they do. Just throwing out some food for thought.

And yes!! i pulled out the iPhone but it wasn't quick enough! I did like how our organizers timed him though:)