apologies and thanks to everybody

[draxcaliber]

hey guys, this is christian, the guy with the really really really loud silver scion tc. i know people have been complaining about the absurdness of my car during autocross lately, i think it is because i have gotten better at throttle steering that car around the course.

i wanted to thank everybody for there tolerance, especially since i have attended nearly every autocross even this season, this has been one of my best summers in a long time.

i also wanted to let everybody know what the situation was, so they don't think i'm just some annoying punk who is totally unaware of what a nuisance my car is.

i got the custom made exhaust just over a year ago, and i let the shop that made it talk me into going full 3 inch instead of 2.5 inch piping, thinking that it'll make more power, and the loudest vehicle i had ever heard at that point was those cobras, and i figured that if those things, with their short little header into collector exhaust pipes were that loud, i should be right around there at worse. i just had no idea a little 2.4 liter supercharged engine could be that loud. for the record, it does have a high flow cat, a resonator, and a muffler, all of them are straight through (tho some speculate that they might be hollow)

so i figured i'm not going to pay for a whole new exhaust since it was fairly pricey for custom fabricated mandrel bent exhaust, autocross season was over, i saved up, ordered a turbo kit since that would quiet down my exhaust, eliminate some rasp, and add another 75 whp and 100 lb-ft of torque to the car over the supercharger. so i ordered a kit from a small vender on my scion forum because i needed a custom kit to go with my car because the reverse cowl CF hood i have, dips in too far into the engine bay, so the more popular mainstream kits tend to have problems with clearance between the hood, and the wastegate or turbo.

well, paid for the turbo kit in full in march, and waited, waited, waited...went on vacation to walt disney world (with that exhaust, i drove down) came back, the guy was always making an excuse for delay, passed md state emission somehow, waited more. then i got most of my kit, but mainly it was the stuff that he fabricated, like the manifold, piping, intercooler with end tanks, and the first half of the downpipe. all of it HPC coated for insulation. but i was missing a new air filter, second have of my s-pipe, injectors, and well...the turbo. i got all this back in like...june/july, basically, the guy is out of the turbo business, and is gradually getting me the parts that he doesn't fabricate, but gets from vendors.

so i am sick and tired of waiting at this point, i tell him, get me my turbo when i can, since everything i am missing is just a plug and play item, like i can get injectors and an air filter from anywhere, i'm going to just order the parts i am missing and finish the kit, and when he gets me the rest of my stuff, i'll either have spares, or sell them.

so then he tells me that my turbo isn't an off the shelf turbo, i wanted a garrett gt3071r with a .82 a/r, and i'm getting one, but he then says that it has to have a specific compressor cover from the b cover, or a gt2871 compressor cover, but he isn't being specific enough for me to order it, i had my new vender speak to him, and he can't quite get it out of him, says it might be a trade secret of his with turbos or something, but i'll have an answer on tuesday i hope, and i'll have my order placed.

anyway, in summation (if you're still reading), i plan to buy the remaining parts of my kit, attend the autocross at summit motorsports park, then get the turbo installed that monday, the 21 (i scheduled the install and everything already), then try to put on 1000 miles of easy driving to break in the turbo and make sure it is good to go.

so thank you for your patience, tolerance, understanding, and after the autocross at summit, i won't compete in the tc unless the turbo is installed.

Christian Hepler, cdc #428

[FredK]

What?? what?? I can't hear you! Your car is so loud I can't even read you.
FredK

[Gonz]

The organizers measured it at Bowie. 110 dB on our noise meter. That only describes the volume of the noise, not the quality of the noise which is subjective. Who knows, maybe some guys like the sound of a dentist drill at 110db ?

There are other cars out there too loud for my tastes, but this one takes it to the next level. It definitely goes to 11 !
Thanks for the tip about summit. I'll take my ear plugs with me.

[draxcaliber]

yeah, inside the car it isn't so bad, especially since me and a friend put some lightweight raam mat sound deadening in the trunk to quiet it down inside the car. actually, with my helmet on inside the car it sounds pretty good.

[hepcatz]

Christian,

Thanks for the note, I hope it all works out for you. What an ordeal!

[leadfootgirl]

It's not my nature to bag on someone for their choices on modifying their cars.. even when it's not my taste.

But this really does take it to the next level.

Christian - I've met you, you seem like a really nice guy. But I gotta tell you - it sucks that you can't get your turbo and you have all these constraints, and i'm glad you dampened the sound inside for yourself... but when i'm on the hill by the fence at Harry Grove and I have to plug my ears each time you take off - I think that's a bit over the top. I realize there are two parts to this - sound level and sound quality. Unfortunately, to my ears, your car is too loud, and not at all pleasant sounding. I can only imagine what it's like for the course workers and the guy at the starting gate.

I feel bad that you've made some decisions that have taken you to this point, but in honesty - it's not like you can't put the stock exhaust back on. In all honesty, I think it's highly inconsiderate of you to run your car that loud (and obnoxious sounding) at an autocross.

That's just my $.02. I don't mean this to be personal - it just makes the day less enjoyable for me.

[bearda]

The organizers measured it at Bowie. 110 dB on our noise meter. That only describes the volume of the noise, not the quality of the noise which is subjective. Who knows, maybe some guys like the sound of a dentist drill at 110db ?

There are other cars out there too loud for my tastes, but this one takes it to the next level. It definitely goes to 11 !
Thanks for the tip about summit. I'll take my ear plugs with me.

Was the 110 dB distance compensated and if it wasn't, about how far away was it measured? 110 is getting close to the immediate-hearing-damage level.

[kyle.bowker]

110db standing at the timing tent pointing a cheapo sound meter at the car as it went around. No scientific methodology used.

[bearda]

110db standing at the timing tent pointing a cheapo sound meter at the car as it went around. No scientific methodology used.

Wow, depending on the distance from the tent to the car you could be spiking well over 140 db at the start line (where it's going to be loudest on a launch anyway). That'd be more than enough to cause permanent hearing damage in a few seconds without some sort of protection. At those levels if anyone was receiving a paycheck OSHA would be all over our asses.

I can grab a couple pairs of disposable earplugs from work and my set of muffs, but anybody wearing them isn't going to be able to hear a radio. I don't know if it would matter at that point though, I can never hear the radio when the tC is oncourse anyway. Hearing damage aside that's the biggest problem with working the course while the louder cars are out. At Summit where you can't see half the course anyway not being able to hear the radio means you may have no clue if you need to flag a car or not.

[draxcaliber]

wow, nice to finally have a quantifiable measurement of how loud my exhaust really is now. so 110 to 140 decibels. does anybody have a good guess of how much the turbo will quiet down the car? i've heard "oh, it will cut the noise down by half. or it will mellow it out and sound less raspy. i think one guy said it would cut about 15 decibels from my exhaust, which doesn't sound like alot when it is that high. but i guess the overall noise of it will go down.

[FredK]

It won't matter..once I figure out who you are I'm going to beat the crap out of you , just to make us even.
FredK

[mdbhokie]

Building a turbo kit to quiet down your exhaust!

Can you run a silencer? Can you reinstall the stock exhaust? Can you temporarily buy/borrow/build a quieter/smaller diameter system and resell it once the turbo kit is complete? There are a bunch of options. Building a turbo kit seems to be the most round-about way to solve the problem and it may not even actually solve it.

Out of curiosity, have you ever gotten an exhaust ticket?

[draxcaliber]

nope, had this exhaust over a year, never been pulled over. since i accrued a load of points on my license from many speeding tickets. and since a silver car with a black CF hood, and very loud exhaust screams look at me, i gotta stay in the slow lane. so far i haven't been pulled over in 2 years for a moving violation, so i'm doing pretty good. the only time i got pulled over for that exhaust was in orlando, florida in may 2009, right outside walt disney world by a florida state trooper who said it is illegal, which is a joke because i lived there for half a year as an intern and they don't even have vehicle inspections in that state. and he tried to get me to admit i was florida resident despive having MD tags, MD driver's license, and i even showed him my email confirmation for my resort reservation. he let me off with a warning, but ultimately only MD can tell me that my exhaust is illegal, not him.

as for stock exhaust, i didn't have anywhere to keep my stock exhaust, so i didn't ask for it back from the shop. since it has been over year, it is probably long gone. i spoke to them about making the exhaust quieter, with a quieter muffler or adding another muffler or resonator, but they keep telling me it would be a waste of money since it would hurt the power potential of the turbo.

and instead of getting smaller quieter exhaust and taking a step backwards, i just figured it was better for a turbocharged engine, so i'll just turbocharge it and keep moving forward with the cars improvements and make it faster.

[draxcaliber]

now, for those who doubt me, i have been doing some diligent research on this, but it wasn't exactly scientific, but i'll let you guys be the judge.

now, i have a 4-2-1 racing header and s-pipe with 3 inch exhaust with a straight through high flow cat, resonator and muffler. now p-tuning makes a 3 inch turbo back exhaust for the tc that looks like it only has a resonator or a very small muffler pictured here: http://www.ptuning.com/html/Item-Desc.c ... delDesc=tC

now, my tc sounds like this in some fairly good videos taken from one of our events a summit point (double-check your speaker volume before you play!!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RFaiKu-LA and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsVbnOC-Y-c these videos were taken up on the hill a safe distance from the actual course.

here is the p-tuning time attack turbo tc with 3 inch turbo back exhaust: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67LFtBIL9w

notice how the camera is closer to the car, but it is considerably quieter than the videos of my car show at a distance. could be lower quality camera but, i think it is okay comparision, especially since this video was shot purely to convey the mellow sound of the performance exhaust.

here is another turbo tc with p-tuning 3 inch exhaust shot with what looks like a pretty good quality camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-qNOeln05A

those tc's sounds pretty good to me. and they aren't even cat'ed like i am and will be with a turbo. so i can only imagine that 3 inch exhaust with resonator, cat, and muffler should be as quiet as p-tuning exhaust which only has what looks like one piece of sound suppression equipment on it or even quieter.

[drakedeming]

LOL, I can't believe you Christian. As for noisy, while working last Saturday the Cobras were also really hurting my ears.

[defylogik]

Your car definitely makes one of the most offensive noises i have ever heard. Almost blows your ear drums out. Not sure how you drove from here to Florida like that. I would probably be put in an asylum

As for the hood, why not just put your stock one back on? Turbo > vented hood.

Best of luck. Sounds like you have a lot to figure out. I wouldn't trust a vendor that doesn't tell you exactly what you are buying though. And if they claim they have something that is proprietary, chances are they are blowing smoke up your you know what and won't be in business when you need it rebuilt.



Scott

[Gonz]

.... i spoke to them about making the exhaust quieter, with a quieter muffler or adding another muffler or resonator, but they keep telling me it would be a waste of money since it would hurt the power potential of the turbo.

and instead of getting smaller quieter exhaust and taking a step backwards, i just figured it was better for a turbocharged engine, so i'll just turbocharge it and keep moving forward with the cars improvements and make it faster.

Does this shop know this is a "street car" ? Street cars require compromise. Unless you are getting paid to win races, the last 5 or 10 HP isn't worth pursuing if the car is going to be this loud. And with a quieter exhaust, you won't be stuck in the slow lane trying to avoid an exhaust ticket.

[echan]

Thanks for your post.

As we agreed, let's just leave it that your car will be quieter after the Summit event.

Ed

[draxcaliber]

i don't drive in the slow lane to avoid exhaust tickets, it was to avoid speeding tickets. my license was on the verge of suspension for 2 years. can't get my license suspended for exhaust violation. and once i'm at cruising speed, the exhaust isn't that loud when i'm at a steady speed in the right gear. there is alittle drone, like when i went to florida, but hey, 12 hour driving, it helped make sure i didn't fall asleep at the wheel. that and some good music to keep me going, oh, and plenty of coffee too.

also, there are lots of cool things you can do with this kinda exhaust. like if you're being tailgated, shift to neutral and floor it, or driving down the road and see some deer up ahead, same thing. the tailgater backs off, deer flee for their lives. or for instance, one day driving home, there was this lady in a white toyota corolla yakking on her phone while hovering over the white lines taking up two lanes, so i got ahead of her and kept the car in low gear while going 45 mph right ahead of her. needless to say, she had to call them back later.

oh, and for the greatest trick it can perform, flooring it in a parking full of a cars and setting off all the sensitive car alarms.

[eage8]

First off, I would not trust any shop that would try to convince you to put a 3" exhaust on a non-turbo car. it's going to make it slower.

I have a 3" exhaust on my rx7 and it goes through 1 strait through resonator, and then splits and goes through 2 REAL mufflers. Strait through mufflers don't do anything. My rx-7 is quite tolerable, even with my rather large exhaust leak...

bottom line, I would just replace the muffler with a real one, and be fine. there probably won't be any hp decrease, they may be a slight increase in spool time, but you probably wouldn't even notice it.

[draxcaliber]

yeah, i'm pretty sure my muffler is a magnaflow, and it is real in the sense that it exists i suppose. i was thinking about modifying the axelback portion of the exhaust to split and go into 2 mufflers for a dual exhaust look, but that can look kinda tacky, but depending on the aftermath of the turbocharger set up, i might pursue even quieter exhaust options with another muffler on it.

but hey, learning about cars and such involves some trial and error, i'm sure everybody has made mistakes at some point.

[awptickes]

I remember wearing earplugs every morning and afternoon for my 100mile per day commute in a civic.

[bugman1964]

add another resonator while it wont quiet it down tons it will take out some more rasp and it wont really hurt the performance of the exhaust or switch to one long resonator. like a18" or even a 24" if it will fit. Resonators are a straight pipe design with cut out's into a glass packing material so that the majority of the exhaust will go right through it creating very little back preasure that's why it wont really drop the noise level much(5-10dB) but will take a lot of the rasp out.

Sucks that your getting jerked around by the one time vendor.

[moto-ufo]

It goes w/o saying but if you're at Summit on the 19th I'd appreciate it (and I'm sure those around you) for NOT showing off for your friends by flooring it in neutral like you did at Bowie while I was pitted right next to you.

Thanks in advance.

-Brian

[draxcaliber]

It goes w/o saying but if you're at Summit on the 19th I'd appreciate it (and I'm sure those around you) for NOT showing off for your friends by flooring it in neutral like you did at Bowie while I was pitted right next to you.

Thanks in advance.

-Brian

well, yeah, that was actually a request by a visitor and he didn't have time to stick around for my runs i guess. people just wanna know how loud is loud i suppose.