09/19 Summit Point

[NAautoxer]

give that honor to lars on his last run.. he spun after the slalom.

[moto-ufo]

What a great course!! So much fun. Can't wait to get back there. +1 on the mirror - very helpful. Thank you to Ted and Mark for the in-car instruction.

[flohtingPoint]

and you failed to spin in honor of Hamilton too

As always folks, I had a blast.

42.9 +1 WHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! All my good times were marred by a +1 that would have been easily avoidable =(

Ah, I was too busy waiting for Flavio Briatore to tell me to wreck to bring out the safety car.

[bugman1964]

As always folks, I had a blast.

42.9 +1 WHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! All my good times were marred by a +1 that would have been easily avoidable =(

The question is ,was it the same cone every time?

[defylogik]

Anyone snap any action pics of our $500 RDV miata?

[Jim Harris]

Yeah it was a good time. My first time out on the skid pad and it makes me wish I went to previous SP events. That slick pavement is exactly what I needed to practice flicking the car around.

My vid from today, last run is the best if you want to just skip the rest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JADQJWJ3Seg

Very fun course indeed. Good job to the organizers who kept everything moving so smoothly and efficiently. The mirror at the starting line should be a permanent fixture IMO.

Yeah the mirror was nice, plus 1 for keeping it.

Thanks for the video. (I was in Cumberland.) Nice layout.

Is the surface any better that way or is it still really slippery?

Jim
(Who hated it first time.)

[wrathe74]

Yeah it was a good time. My first time out on the skid pad and it makes me wish I went to previous SP events. That slick pavement is exactly what I needed to practice flicking the car around.

My vid from today, last run is the best if you want to just skip the rest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JADQJWJ3Seg

Very fun course indeed. Good job to the organizers who kept everything moving so smoothly and efficiently. The mirror at the starting line should be a permanent fixture IMO.

Yeah the mirror was nice, plus 1 for keeping it.

Thanks for the video. (I was in Cumberland.) Nice layout.

Is the surface any better that way or is it still really slippery?

Jim
(Who hated it first time.)

IMHO ... slick is a relative term. If your running R-comps, then yeah it'll be slippery, but considering that I'm running on Street Tires (Kumho XS), to me...its slick enough to throw the car where I want it, but grippy enough that I'm not spinning wheels pulling out of a corner. This is the only venue out of AI, WDCR, and CDC where I can truly 'feel' the car out. So for me, its not slippery at all. In fact I was in vtec quite a few times, something I rarely am able to achieve in any other lot. If it was too slippery, my car would spin out in vtec. I won't lie though...it does take some finesse to hold the car at limit while rotating it, but .. thats why I love it at SP!

Last thought...the surface at SP, I believe, allows everyone to be much more "even" across the board, and really helps you identify your weaknesses...which is very important to me. SP lot is invaluable to me as a learning tool.

[bugman1964]

I agree this lot is def. for street tire cars. You can run R comps but I dont think they give an advantage. I too run kuhmo XS's and I find the lot to have plenty of grip. I also agree that it's a great lot to point out where you driving technique is faulty and can be improved. To those that haven't gone since the first event I highly suggest you make it to the last one up there this year.

[hepcatz]

Yeah I agree the traction is what makes this location as it requires some skill. Otherwise if it wasn't a little slick you could just go flat out with little skill and even a crap driver like me could get ftd. =)

[saint_foo]

A couple of things about the SP course:

I think street tires are better suited than R-comps (especially well-worn R-comps). Since the times may not be as far off b/w R-comps and street tires, the indexes are better for street tire owners, IMHO.

Also, I think there are some cars that probably require considerably more concentration, a narrower margin for correction, etc. The really torquey V8s (like Jim's Mustang), the Cobras, and some others that do well at the other courses....just are not as dominant as some of the others. The Elises/Miatas/S2000s seem to do slightly worse (average) than their normal FWD and AWD competitors. That's my opinion. I guess we could compare the times when I post 'em up.

[defylogik]

I would like to get out there on the skid pad and use it for what it is meant for one of these days. Learn a little drift control like T. Foust. That might be fun time after all the runs are completed Hint hint.

[Jim Harris]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually like driving in the rain (just to illustrate). Very educational, as well as being fun. The car is actually pretty well behaved in the rain. And the Nitto NT-01s I often run on are actually a good rain tire.

On the SP skid pad, I lose all of that, though. The bad part is that the ABS gets spooky, and I lose the brakes altogether in spots (because the sensors take the brakes away rather than allow them to be applied unevenly). Also, even slight applications of throttle send the rear end sideways.

I wish SP had laid out normal pavement and just watered it down.

Oh, well. I'll probably try it again at some point.

Jim

[bugman1964]

ya best hurry there is only one event left.

[wrathe74]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually like driving in the rain (just to illustrate). Very educational, as well as being fun. The car is actually pretty well behaved in the rain. And the Nitto NT-01s I often run on are actually a good rain tire.

On the SP skid pad, I lose all of that, though. The bad part is that the ABS gets spooky, and I lose the brakes altogether in spots (because the sensors take the brakes away rather than allow them to be applied unevenly). Also, even slight applications of throttle send the rear end sideways.

I wish SP had laid out normal pavement and just watered it down.

Oh, well. I'll probably try it again at some point.

Jim

Jim, if you want to come to the next event at SP, and your hesitant about using your car...you can drive my car. I know its not a beast (Suxass), and its not a RWD muscle car....but for the SP event, its a lot of fun.

[armitage]

Thanks to all the organizers for a great event. It was a lot of fun driving on the "reduced traction" surface. It kind of felt like driving in the wet, only without water. Based on that I may have to go and try one of the drift events they hold there some day!

Video from one of my PM runs below. The camera focus was set wrong for all of my runs, d'oh!

http://vimeo.com/6684512

[BugBomb]

I believe the grip has improved slightly at the Washington circuit. At the first few events, it was very dirty. This made the slick surfaces even worse. Now that there are curbs, grass, drainage, and even painted lines for the kart track, the venue seems to stay cleaner.

It will always be a bit of an equalizer, though. Any 2WD car with more than 250HP will be difficult to control on this surface. There is absolutely no point for us to use high-boost in the L as it just causes massive oversteer any time the turbo spools.

I have driven several lower-power cars at Summit, and they are a blast because you can play around with sliding so easily but it doesn't bite your head off when you try to hit the gas.

[draxcaliber]

it was almost a perfect day for me, good runs, good organization, we had 3 cars on the course at a time (1 finishing while one was rounding the sweeper and another was just starting) very quick runs. just gotta make sure drivers won't dawdle too long around the stop garage as it was a very fast finish and the next car wasn't far behind!

only bad thing that happened was on my way home, just a few minutes from the track, a tree hanging over the road dropped some tennis ball size fruit of some kind as i drove under it. no real damage, but it looks like i have a spider line crack in my paint where it hit. it landed right where the hood meets the bumper and headlight.

[dannykao]

I thought the surface was slippery in certain sections, and OK in other parts. The slalom was very slick and it's a handful if you got behind. The steady state has grip on the turn-in, but very slippery 20 - 30 feet before the exit. If you don't stay tidy and keep the car as straight as possible, then it's pretty tough especially if you have a lot of power and RWD. I can totally understand why the Cobra guys don't like it.

I only ran the Skidpad once before Saturday, and it was in the rain. The course was running in the reverse pattern, and the slippery spots are exactly the same - left side of the top circle, right side of the middle circle, and the middle area between top and middle circle.

It's definitely the most slippery dry surface I have autocrossed on other than if you get offline in Topeka at the Nationals. It was entertaining and I will certainly do it again, but it is a little hairy in a couple of spots.

[gqdre78]

Hey guys,

This is Alex with the slow 08 white sti. Just wanted to say that I had a blast last saturday! I really have no idea why I've stopped autocrossing 5-6 years ago, I've forgot how fun it is! I'll definitely come back for more, especially when it's at summit point, just because i heard that the other track, although are very grippy, yet it eat tons of tires, and can't really afford to keep buying tires right now. I was surprised that summit did so little to my tires!

two thumbs up to all the organizers, never had 6 runs from 9am-2pm, this just shows how organize this club is. will definitely come back for more!

anyways, i'll see you guys back next month at summit!

[BCAM]

I too haven't Auto-X in about two years. It was good to be out again!

If interested, here's a minute in car vid from my last run at SP (41.xx)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jApi9Zi4kdI

[awptickes]

I really love SP. It's so much fun to drive the car in low-traction conditions, while maintaining the control and safety of not being on the street. It's like driving in a downpour, slick and fun. I too love driving in the rain and mud, it makes me feel like a rally driver. It also forces you to recognize every little mistake you make, much like driving on old, hard tires.

The surface really is an incredible handicap for high powered cars, which makes the fit excel. I keep wanting to try out some wide snow/ice tires on it.

If anyone wants to drive the fit next time, let me know. I'd recommend riding first, because it's a different kind of FWD car, it doesn't quite handle like a civic as one would expect.

[wrathe74]

If anyone wants to drive the fit next time, let me know. I'd recommend riding first, because it's a different kind of FWD car, it doesn't quite handle like a civic as one would expect.

The Fit is GO! lol

I'd like to try the Fit, if your up for it, swap a run two with my car....you'd really enjoy it I won't be at the next event in Bowie, but I will be at the next SP event.

[flohtingPoint]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually like driving in the rain (just to illustrate). Very educational, as well as being fun. The car is actually pretty well behaved in the rain. And the Nitto NT-01s I often run on are actually a good rain tire.

On the SP skid pad, I lose all of that, though. The bad part is that the ABS gets spooky, and I lose the brakes altogether in spots (because the sensors take the brakes away rather than allow them to be applied unevenly). Also, even slight applications of throttle send the rear end sideways.

I wish SP had laid out normal pavement and just watered it down.

Oh, well. I'll probably try it again at some point.

Jim

I totally relate with Jim here. While I dont have his horsepower, my PTW is excellent and my throttle response is instantaneous (individual throttle bodies + velocity stacks = no delay). I even look at the throttle wrong and my car is already out of control. Summit is definitely an AWD/FWD paradise.

[hepcatz]

I'd also take you up on a swap if interested sometime

If anyone wants to drive the fit next time, let me know. I'd recommend riding first, because it's a different kind of FWD car, it doesn't quite handle like a civic as one would expect.

The Fit is GO! lol

I'd like to try the Fit, if your up for it, swap a run two with my car....you'd really enjoy it I won't be at the next event in Bowie, but I will be at the next SP event.

[disenfranchised]

I had a great time, and it was definitely interesting keeping my car pointed the direction I wanted instead of sliding around...

I also watched the bikes afterward for a bit, and got a bunch of pictures. Cars and bikes are here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/disenfranc ... 309094287/
and I added the cars to the pool.