Suggestions for 2011

[D_Eclipse9916]

--I agree that horsepower is unreasonably discounted in the index, and especially on CDC style lots and tight courses. On the other hand, I don't agree that R compounds are handicapped too severely. I wouldn't mind seeing the high grade ST tires like the Star Specs treated like the 100 series tires in the index. That would make more sense.

I think if people looked at the numbers you might change your mind (im a finance guy, so sue me). All else being equal on a 60 second course....
Tire Index : 60 seconds
Semi-R: 61.2 seconds
R-Comp or A-comp: 62.1 seconds

so all the guys complaining about that street tires such as the dunlop should be classed as a Semi-R, think that on an all equal car, that your only behind by .9 seconds on a 60 second course? Am I really getting this right? Sorry, no. I DO beleive that 2.1 seconds is a huge stretch from Street tire to R-Comp. Tests by GRM, SportsCar, and independent tests reveal that the best dunlop/XS/RE11 is still 1.5-1.9 seconds off.. So lets pull the R-Comp index and Semi-R index by a small amount to close the gap.

Again, read this article if you really think the new "street tires" are that close to an r-comp.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/measuring/

Houw bout this? (this would be my vote)
Tire Index (1.0) 60 seconds
Semi-R (1.015) 60.9 seconds
R-Comp: (1.03) 61.8 seconds

[FredK]

Concrete is very different than asphalt. R comps gain much more grip due to the fine abrasive surface on concrete. My miata is faster on unshaved NT/01's than A6's @ Harry Grove, same day test. AJ was slower on my V710's on light RP-F1's than his RE 11's @ Harry grove too. just the facts.
fred

[D_Eclipse9916]

Concrete is very different than asphalt. R comps gain much more grip due to the fine abrasive surface on concrete. My miata is faster on unshaved NT/01's than A6's @ Harry Grove, same day test. AJ was slower on my V710's on light RP-F1's than his RE 11's @ Harry grove too. just the facts.
fred

Same car for the AJ? Interesting, although remember that we only do limited runs, so learning the course is part of it.

Whatever the issue is, if you guys put dunlops at r-comp levels, wont matter to me as I aint competing next year; but youll be killing anyone that ever wants to run street tires, effectively raising the "cost" to compete with CDC. Theres a reason why people in SCCA Stock classes dont run street tires when they have r-comps available.

[eage8]

Theres a reason why people in SCCA Stock classes dont run street tires when they have r-comps available.

tire size

if anyone made a 255/40/13 street tire I would run it

[AJ_RDR_Civic]

Concrete is very different than asphalt. R comps gain much more grip due to the fine abrasive surface on concrete. My miata is faster on unshaved NT/01's than A6's @ Harry Grove, same day test. AJ was slower on my V710's on light RP-F1's than his RE 11's @ Harry grove too. just the facts.
fred

Same car for the AJ? Interesting, although remember that we only do limited runs, so learning the course is part of it.

Whatever the issue is, if you guys put dunlops at r-comp levels, wont matter to me as I aint competing next year; but youll be killing anyone that ever wants to run street tires, effectively raising the "cost" to compete with CDC. Theres a reason why people in SCCA Stock classes dont run street tires when they have r-comps available.

For clarity, there were a few factors to take into consideration when I ran both tires on my car the same day. Also these factors should be taken into consideration for any other application when in comparison. My RE-11's were fairly fresh, about 25 events on them. The V710's were probably heat cycled out and not to mention it was a cooler day out. My car is setup for street tires, when I ran the V710's the car acted completely different with the two predominant differences being much faster steering response and craaazy oversteer. I'm sure the stiff sidewalls were really the cause. Whether grip was an issue or not, I feel my car is much more stable on a street tire than the r-comp. So, yes that day my street tires beat out the r-comps. Are street tires as fast or faster? NO. Car setup plays an important role and also other conditions. For example, look at the "stock" classes at SCCA event, freakin' G & H-Stock cars are matching and beating my raw times...

Another thing to think about is on a small course like HG, most peoples times will be closer to eachother regardless of car/setup. There's only so much that someone can improve or make mistakes on when on a simple ~30sec course. Run the same cars against eachother on a larger, more difficult course, and you'll really see the times start to spread out.

[Jim Harris]

The surface matters, the setup matters, and it matters whether we are talking about a Hoosier A6 or a Kumho V710 as the R compound to compare.

It equally matters whether we are mounting the tires in question on a 3540 pound Mustang, a 3150 pound Corvette, or a much lughter Civic or Miata. The Mustang and Corvette are transformed by a Hoosier A6 in a way that does not apply to the Civic or Miata. Translation: it matters a lot when you run a Mustang or Vette on something other than an A6.

Anyway, the Dunlop Star Spec is a spooky tire. At least as good as a Nitto NT-01 or a Nitto RII Extreme. That's my main takeaway.

[defylogik]

Suggestion for the 2011 season - Cheese filled hot-dogs. That is all.

[dannykao]

Suggestion for the 2011 season - Cheese filled hot-dogs. That is all.

This is the best suggestion by far!

Oh, and toasted hotdog buns.

[david.valeri]

Suggestion for the 2011 season - Cheese filled hot-dogs. That is all.

We are going to have to add "risk of scalding from burning hot cheese filling" to the waiver.

[phranquelynn]

Suggestion for the 2011 season - Cheese filled hot-dogs. That is all.

what do you call a cheese filled hot dog that doesn't belong to you?



a Nacho Cheese Filled Hot Dog

[FredK]

O.K. it's official, this thread is dead.

[Bigbacon]

I want to chime in here, specially on the ideas of changing the indexes.

One of the main reason I joined with this club is because it was simple...you could hop in your car, come out and have a good time. I didn't have to deal with crazy and just unimaginable complex rule sets like SCCA groups. I could do what I wanted to my vehicle and not be put in some class where I would be totally out gunned no matter what.

CDC is so simple, I get a sticker, I put it on the car, they scan it, I drive. No B.S. no silliness, no stress. I think it people want more complexity then CDC isn't where it is at. Though maybe my means are different than others. I come out to have fun, not to attempt to be the best driver out there (cause it would never happen)

Now, having different classifications might be good, but adding in things like power to weight, spring rates, adj. sways and all that mumbo jumbo just makes it harder for everyone to have a good time, specially the organizers as they would now have to deal with 1000 different things.

Maybe instead of just one overall winner, break it down into small bore, street, r-comp or something.

I guess the best way to describe is KEEP IT SIMPLE

About the food...I would actually be happier to pay a few bucks more for an event if it included food. Probably just me, but I never have cash and I usually would like a hotdog or two. I would pay an extra 5 bucks to be given a few tickets that = food/drink. Less I have to bring with me and/or it stops me from going to McD's or similar places.

[defylogik]

Suggestion for the 2011 season - Cheese filled hot-dogs. That is all.

what do you call a cheese filled hot dog that doesn't belong to you?



a Nacho Cheese Filled Hot Dog