Suggestions for 2011

[phranquelynn]

Figure I would start a new thread for suggestions. It'll be nice to keep the "last event" thread nice, warm and fuzzy. So, let the bitching begin here.

First off, I think I can speak for most club members, we're very happy with how things are running. I would be more than happy if nothing changed. I know rules are in place and decisions have been made by organizers who have weighed all the benefits and consequences. I can't imagine what goes into running one of these events, nor do I want to. I'm very happy with the club. Here are the few things I'd like to offer to organizers for them to decide:

COFFEE! I know Ed already brought it up. But I just want to reiterate. Would love to get coffee from the club in the morning. Maybe even breakfast sandwiches. Not sure what it would take to fire up the grill a bit early. But as a tire changer, I would love to get something to eat after sweating it out jacking up the car and before my initial runs.

Novice mentors. I feel like there's a lot to take in when you're a novice. Seems like there's a lot of mistakes. I'm sure organizers have gone over everything with them, but it's just too much to remember. As a novice just a couple seasons ago, I know I was clueless. And I see the same cluelessness with them now. For example, I see novices ask what now after they run. They know to work, but they don't realize where to go. I guess I can take it upon myself to walk up to a novice and tell them they can shadow me. But if we make it something of a volunteer program with club members being mentors and the novice shadowing from course walk to riding with the member to working with the member, I think it'll help with their overall experience. And perhaps being members. It'll probably make things overall run smoother too if novices had someone to follow.

Small bore. I hate to bring this up and turn it into another argument. I had and still think r comps should be allowed in small bore. However I never understood why small bore isn't indexed. Seems to make sense to me to put street tires on a level playing field with r comps.

Stree tire classes. I have a feeling I'll be flamed for this. Because I know CDC isn't about having a million classes. But I think having a couple more classes would still keep it a friendly atmosphere and foster a little goodwill competition. How 'bout a Street Tire Big Bore and Street Tire Small Bore class?

Drops. Seems like there's a lot of effort that goes into keeping score and time. However there's only a handful really competing for year end trophy. In small bore, there's only 5-6 of us who actually made it to 10+ events (less than that you would have a zero count for some events b/c of not making enough events). So, why not open it up to more people by having more drops? I think it would actually keep more people coming back. Like AJ said in the other thread, there's a lot of events to make. And they're spread out from Woodbridge to Winchester. That's a huge drive. Can we make attendance more reasonable like 1/2 events dropped. I think the ones who want to go to all of them like me, Dan, Wade, Fred, Don, Larry, Ben, Mike etc would still do so. However for those who have made 3-4, they might be inclined to make a couple more to qualify for year end trophies.

More results online. Any chance we can put all the times of every run online? I know I like to go over my times and see what I did right and where. Would be great to have something like the new board we have on site and have it accessible online.

Anyway, these are merely suggestions. The start of a brainstorm so to speak. If you're against it, feel free to voice your opinion. But please remember we're all friends (I think) and no need to be rude about your objections.

[FredK]

Frank..the grace period isn't over! I agree with most of your thoughts.
My feelings.
Small bore definately needs some index. I was having fun doing it early in the year and planned to do it all year until you got those tires. I want to be able to drive to an event for small bore and I don't want to buy more wheels. A max width, any tire would work too, at least for me.

I think the tire index is to severe for r-comps, their are some really good street tires out there now, people don't drive on them to the events for a reason.

I don't think that an extra index hit for 350+ hp is fair. At cdc events anything over 350hp just makes it harder to drive, it's not exactly Cumberland or Fed Ex.

Weight...after last week it's obvious that an index hit for super light is needed. EM cars should end up with a higher index than cobras..duh.

All times should be in the results, everyone else does it, I know that doesn't mean anything...or does it. It's fun to see all the cones etc.

Having to beat Don by three seconds to win index on a thirty second course seems wrong to me, but I don't know what to do about that.

I do lots of different events and series with my cars, CDC is alway just plain fun for me.

FredK

[Imprezive_04]

First I will say that cdc's index does get some things "right". For example this past Sat:

Me - STU STi - raw 34.97 - cdc index 35.66 - scca index 29.51
Fred - XP Fauxbra - raw 33.03 - cdc index 35.56 - scca index 29.4

Fred beat me by .1 on the cdc index and .11 if we used an scca index. So thats pretty good assuming the years of data scca has means something. I did this calc all year since I'm neither a good enough driver or have a good enough car to follow Ben in his "raw time rules!" mantra and it held true at all the events I did with cdc being with in .01-.03 of scca.

I think small bore should be indexed or at least have a tire index because having to buy hoosiers to compete seems to counter the spirit of the class.

I think Fred and Wade's times prove Wade is being over penalized for his HP.

I think a mostly novice 4th heat leads to some confusion and a heat that runs really slow with workers that sometimes forget that the cars on course are trying to eat them.

I know I'm alone in this, but I think cdc should adopt a "spirit of the rules" scca pax. Use the basic scca index system, but drop all of the stuff that drives people a little crazy. Don't force an STi with an ALK in to SM. Don't force a Miata with a depowered rack or wrong radio delete plate into CSP. Probably hard to police, but so is the current system.

[03threefiftyz]

There are some good suggestions here so far....I agree with Fred in particular that the new generation of high end street tires are exceptional. Dropping the 100 treadwear to 1.015 and the 40-100 to 1.03 would be best in my opinion.

Ryan and Wade also make a good point about hp....I have to agree that hp is weighted to heavily...particularly in the higher end.

One other opinion I'd like to throw out there for arguments sake....is a drivetrain layout index. I know I'll probably be in the minority in this opinion, but in particular with cars on street tires I think the AWD cars should suffer a small handicap. Something along the lines of .995 for FWD, 1.00 for RWD, and 1.005.

I think keeping the index relatively close to as is would be ideal...with a few small tweaks. I'd prefer to stay away from an SCCA PAX index.

See you guys next year!

[Tedzilla]

Coffee? Sandwiches? We lose money on food! How about a $40 entry fee for the Breakfast Club and $55 for Latte and Eggs Florentine Platinum Club?
I don't even want to talk about the index...

[hepcatz]

Well, here goes my 2 cents:

1. I agree with coffee (though I think breakfast is a bit much) however it doesn't need to be the club, why don't members bring in coffee or bagels? Can the little generator power a cheap percolator pot in addition to all the electronics? If so, a couple bucks chipped in by several members would take care of it. I don't think the club should provide everything.

2. I think the AWD comment factored into index might be a good idea.

3. posting of all runs is also a good idea

4. online registration- too many people sign up as a safety net and don't show which is bad for the club financially even if we do get more runs. 3/4 of ax clubs offer online registration to secure a spot & if you don't show, you forfeit the $. Usually online reg is cheaper than at the site as well.

5. I think the club should charge a slight amount more, except maybe Frederick for events. Although I personally really appreciate the economical fees when compared to other groups, I know it isn't beneficial for the club.

6. Waldorf, Waldorf, Waldorf- with good advertisement I know lots of folks from all clubs would come out to this lot and gladly pay more. Inside bathroom and one of the best lots around.

7. Novice mentor is a good topic to explore & so is a designated person to take pics

8. TnTs at other lots than HGS

9. Lastly, info on what organizers do with the club (outside of the obvious) and how to work towards becoming one. Myself, I'd love to announce, do timing or start (with the new scan system) sometime.

John

[03threefiftyz]

I love everything about waldorf except its distance from Frederick. As much as I like to run on that lot I wouldn't attend. The only reason I go to the AI events there is they have such a late start. For a lot of us we would have to leave before 6am to reasonable get there, change tires, register, etc.

Coffee? Sandwiches? We lose money on food! How about a $40 entry fee for the Breakfast Club and $55 for Latte and Eggs Florentine Platinum Club?
I don't even want to talk about the index...

People are merely throwing out suggestions, opinions, etc.....no reason for the sarcastic . I'd imagine there will be plenty of good and bad suggestions thrown out there over the off season.....

[eage8]

I don't really think there should be a drivetrain index.

both the cars in the running for the index championship were rwd, which to me says that awd cars don't really have that much of an advantage. I would argue that an index for double wishbone suspensions would be more appropriate

(I'm not suggesting that though, it would just be nit picking)

[Dan133]

I personally would eat Eggs Florentine and drink latte's only if Ted served them.

[Claff]

Waldorf would be awesome. Such a great venue and only 10 minutes from my driveway. If I can make the haul from Waldorf to Frederick even once a year, for a lot that's so much better it's worth the long ride.

There was some chatter early Sunday morning about how to deal with novices. Best suggestion was to not slot the majority of them in the last heat since that could be asking for trouble, or at least confusion. "Adopt a Newbie" sounds like a great idea - outfit half a dozen volunteers in T-shirts of a unique color (big NEWBIE SQUAD LEADER letters on the back) and tell first-timers that they are free to seek out people so dressed to be their big brother for the day, one newbie per volunteer. The volunteer would walk the newbie through the sign-up process, getting the car ready for tech, on course walks, working the course, and riding in each other's cars offering pointers, advice, and criticism. You can volunteer once a year or every week - maybe if you offer to wear the shirt you get five bucks knocked off your entry (the club will make that money back easily if just a couple newbies who might not get a good first impression without the program wind up returning for a couple more events).

[Dan133]

I concur with Al on the newbie squad and nominate him for lieutenant.

[Dan133]

"Adopt a Newbie" sounds like a great idea - outfit half a dozen volunteers in T-shirts of a unique color (big NEWBIE SQUAD LEADER letters on the back) and tell first-timers that they are free to seek out people so dressed to be their big brother for the day, one newbie per volunteer. The volunteer would walk the newbie through the sign-up process, getting the car ready for tech, on course walks, working the course, and riding in each other's cars offering pointers, advice, and criticism.

Reading my previous post I realize that it sounds a bit more smartass than I intended. I agree that this is a good idea and would volunteer to be a 'newbie squad member'.

[AJ_RDR_Civic]

As Franklin said, things are great with the club and I'm sure people wouldn't have THAT big of an issue if things kept going the way they are. BUT, I do also agree with a lot of things other have mentioned already.

1. The whole coffee/food thing, I don't really see should be the responsibility of the club. The BBQ stuff is already a very generous offer. Since I've only been to Bowie and Frederick, I can say there are plenty of nearby places to feed your appetite.

2. I 100% agree with the Novice mentors and I will even volunteer for a position as an instructor. I've been an instructor with the BMW club all this season teaching at their schools and helping at all their events. BMW's novice program has been very rewarding and I feel as if it helps bring more members back. CDC is not a bad place to start, but I would definitely suggest to any newbies to run at the BMW club for their first events over any other mainly do to their great help and simple, fun course designs. I think a Novice program with CDC would really help boost member entries, esp with how many new members run at CDC currently.

3. Of course I'll be in favor of a street tire index in SB . In all seriousness, it kinda does make sense. Like others said, in the spirit of keeping the class cheap(which was what was intended, correct?), most would probably run street tires, not r-comps anyways.

4. Yes more drops! 15 points events this year. 3 at Harry Grove, 5 at PGS, 2 at Hylton, 4 at JWHS. Kinda of all over the place right? If it were an even amount at each location then I suppose it'd be less of an issue. There are just a lot of people who can't travel to all of those locations, I for one will never make it out to PGS and Hylton. I'm sure there are many others who are in the same boat or really prefer not to drive to certain locations for w/e reason.

5. In for more results. It's interesting to see raw times, not only your own but others aswell. Maybe you technically beat someone but raw time they killed you lol. You'd never know... Not only that but it'll allow people to see how they improved throughout the day and also make certain there were no mess up's on the results.

6. Online registration/payment I think would be smart for the club to do. What would it hurt? I don't think it'll decrease entries by any means. The people who want to show up, and usually do show up, still will. The new people will figure it out. I think the club could profit more from it.

First I will say that cdc's index does get some things "right". For example this past Sat:

Me - STU STi - raw 34.97 - cdc index 35.66 - scca index 29.51
Fred - XP Fauxbra - raw 33.03 - cdc index 35.56 - scca index 29.4

Fred beat me by .1 on the cdc index and .11 if we used an scca index. So thats pretty good assuming the years of data scca has means something. I did this calc all year since I'm neither a good enough driver or have a good enough car to follow Ben in his "raw time rules!" mantra and it held true at all the events I did with cdc being with in .01-.03 of scca.

Fred's car is not exactly a true XP car, just look at this years Pro Solo results So that index isn't exactly where it should be for his car lol.


EDIT: +1 for Waldorf. It's a very good lot to run on, even if it does cost a bit more. CDC's entry fee's are already relatively cheap, bumping it up another $10-15 to get that lot is still worth it. You can even lose the BBQ stuff to save a few bucks. Waldorf is the furthest and crappiest drive for me to make but I still do it when I can because it's worth it.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I aint saying much as anything I say is "coming from the horse's mouth". Just make sure its fair and not based on 1 or 2 members results/preferences, and look to data results from reputable sources for the differences in horsepower/weight/slicks. Not off a small data sample such as a small club autoxing (like CDCs results).

And Fred, its actually 2.05 seconds every 30 seconds that you would have to beat me in the cobra in raw to beat me in index. (4.1 seconds on a 60 second course). How about this, I know you dont like the index, so ill give you the M3 and you give me the cobra. Seems fair to me....Let me know when you want to swap titles.

[FredK]

I don't have a problem with index, I did O.K. and drove two very different cars this year. I don't want to trade titles, just cars for an event.

I've always thought CDC should have prepaid registration, this has been beaten to death, so I didn't even bother dredging it up again.

I also think we should have a Championship event where the guys who mistakenly believe they are the fastest driver each get three runs in five different cars the total of the fastest runs in each car get totaled, lowest total time Wins. I know at least five guys right now that think they'd win. It could take place at the end of the year instead of the final test n tune.

I won't talk to any of the newbies next year.

Cobras are horrible XP cars, the guys at Divisional and National events just shake their heads when they see R-comps, they pity us.

[dannykao]

My suggestions are mostly time saving suggestions for the organizers and participants:

• Pre-paid through Paypal once the entry is approved.
  Annual tech.
  Novice sticker/magnet to identify the novice.
  One experienced autoxer as ride-along worker per heat for novices.

Not sure what the reason is for separate timing sheet since you are scanning at the start line already. Can probably do away with the time sheet to save some paper and avoid double data entry if it's possible.

The existing "food service" is already way over the top! I certainly appreciate it and as long as the organizer don't mind. But I think asking for more than what's already there is ... Oh well, if you don't think extra food/coffee is too much work, it would be super nice.

[BugBomb]

I will try to address some of the issues/suggestions being made here.


-Time sheets. We are trying to do away with these, but the absence of time sheets creates new problems that we have to solve digitally. For instance, the timesheets are currently proof of registration. True, someone could print their own timesheet, but its much easier for someone who already has a barcode to just roll up and drive without paying any money. There are other problems as well that we have to sort out before the timesheets disappear. Its also helpful for some to have the timesheet for reviewing their times.

-Viewing all times on event results. This is in the works and will likely be incorporated next year.

-Food. To my knowledge, I thought we used the grill food to pay for the free drinks, but don't quote me on that. I don't see breakfast sandwiches happening any time soon, but its a possibility. Coffee is pretty easy and we are looking into doing this, at least on the cold days at the beginning and end of the season.

-Index. This is ultimately YOUR club, so we will likely have a vote for index changes at the award ceremony. So, keep making suggestions and we will prepare a form for everyone to vote at that gathering to shape the index for next year. I must agree that high HP is too harshly penalized. I think R-comps might be at a little too much of a disadvantage as well. Personally, instead of changing the top r-comp index, I would probably change the classification of the tires to different treadwear ratings. I think tires like the Z1s, XS, R1, etc. should be in the first r-comp class at 1.02. They basically grip as well as those tires anyway, at least when they are fresh. That makes more sense to me than changing the difference between an A6 and a Kumho Ecsta SPT. I also agree that there should be an increased penalty for super-wide tires. Not sure how we should do this yet.

-SB Indexed? Sounds good to me. This will likely be an issue to vote on at the awards lunch.

-More events dropped? Once again, vote on it. I don't see any reason why we can't increase this number if that's what the participants want.

-Newbie squad sounds like a nice idea. We might be able to offer folks discounts when volunteering for this.

-Waldorf is definitely a nice lot, but its expensive to rent. We have discussed this before, and we might be able to pull it off if we had another club that could go in on it with us. I definitely wouldn't want to head-organize this as its many hours from my house. We'll have to see if anyone wants to take the initiative with this next year. It would definitely be a neat event and I might even go just to be a participant.

*Remember that our index system is self-policed. Organizers do not enforce it unless an issue is brought up to us.

[echan]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think Mike address many of the issues of what we will be trying to incorporate and improve for next year. Here's a couple of points that come to mind.

As I mentioned in the last event thread, offering coffee probably won't be a problem.

We thought about the annual tech inspection last year and discussed it before the 2010 season. In the end, we decided that too much can change on the condition of the car from the begining of the year to the end of the season (much less from autocross to the next autocross). So to be on the conservative side, we will continue with tech inspection at each event.

As Mike said, Waldorf is not only more expensive but it is located pretty far from all the head organizers. This lot also does not accommodate any rain dates.

We always open the floor at the awards lunch to vote on new indexes and rules. The index system has changed a lot since we first started, and I think we have a pretty good compromise to make most happy.

In terms of how many events to drop, we typically don't know how many events we will event hold until about 2/3 in the season. The availability of lots changes drastically. Most don't know, but we are constantly in discussions with various sites to maintain, schedule additional events, and to coordinate other activities than may confilct with our events. I try to allow about 1/3 of the events to be dropped. This year we dropped 6 events, which is as much as some of the club's entire season of autocross. On one hand, attending 9 events is a lot. On the other hand, should those that attend 9 or more events be able to have an advantage over a participant that only attends 1/2 the events? I understand that some feel that allowing to drop 1/2 the events would help participatation, but I could also see how if a participant would also stop attending if they felt that only 1/2 events are required.

The issue with requiring a novice to have an experience driver to ride with them could easily open up a serious can of worms. Many novices often refuse that they need any instruction (even when going off course 4 or more times in a row). Then if the event is short of available organizer, what drivers should the club use to be instructors. There are some "experience" drivers that we may not want to be instructors (an issue we've had in the past).

We are considering changing the reservation questions to include a question "Is this the first time you autocrossed with CDC?" then to code the timesheet so that the timing tent would provide added care with these participants (e.g. be proactive and ask them if they need an instructor, help them with feel more at home and answer any questions they may have).

There are a lot of pros and cons with prepay and using PayPal. Providing refunds (we even had a particiapant want a refund when his parents were coming in town and had to leave early - this is after he already ran his 3 morning runs), disputing "services not rendered", returning cancelled checks. Believe it or not, just showing up and paying in cash is the best option.

To clarify the food issue, we provide drinks free so that all our participants do not get dehydrated and as a nice plus for the club. We offer the food and the money collected basically pays for the drinks. In addition, the food allows us to continue with out breaking for lunch. On cold days, participants don't drink much but like hot food - make some money these days. On hot days, we go thru all the drinks and don't sell as much food - losing money these days. In the end, the food and drink is pretty much a wash. Everyone should note that we provide high quality food (e.g. best dogs and buns available) and price the food at rock bottom prices. The issue with breakfast is that the organizers are typically running around all the way to about 1/2 way through heat 1. Here's a thing to note when you don't hear the music over the PA, we are still trying to get things going smoothly or we are having issues with the radio. Providing breakfast, may throw us over the edge, especially when we are short of organizers.

Just for referrence, below is what the head organizer is responsible before the event:

Wednesday

1. Compile the non-member e-mails and add to file “List to Add on Google Groups”
2. Add up to 10 e-mails to list (only 10 per day can be added)
3. If more is required, add another 10 on Friday and then following days until list is fully added.

Thursday

1. Check supplies and get enough
a. Sodas (at least 2 times the number of participants)
b. Water (at least 2 times the number of participants)
c. Gatoraid (2 large cans for hot days)
d. Hotdogs (2 Hebrew National Packs from Costco)
e. Sausages (2 Costco Packs)
f. Chicken (16 tenders)
g. Buns (7 bags of Potato buns)
h. Chips (1 box)
i. Ketchup
j. Mustard
k. KC Masters Bar-B-Q Sauce
l. Napkins
m. Cups
n. Ensure you have 3 propane tanks that are at least partially full
2. Ensure all Batteries (car batteries, walkie-talkies, drill batteries, sensor batteries) are charging or fully charged

Friday

1. Get trailer from shop
a. Make sure you get car 2 car batteries
b. Make sure you get trailer keys
c. Make sure you get the two wheel chalks
d. Make sure shop is locked and secured before leaving
e. Get gas for generator
2. Print out roster and attach to one large clipboard
3. Print out current member list and attach to the same clipboard but underneath the roster
4. Print out membership applications, as needed (at least the number on roster +5) and attach to two large clipboards
5. Print out timesheets and cut & collate them.
6. Separate the timesheets in two piles and clip on 2 small black clip boards
7. Check all walkie-talkies and get AA batteries as needed
8. Place all walkie-talkies in black back-pack
9. Place drill and alarm batteries in back-pack also
10. Place petty cash in on money bag, leave the second money bag empty.
11. Place the two money bags in the registration box.
12. Fill Two Water Jugs ¾ full with water and load in tow vehicle
13. Load all buns, and sodas in tow vehicle
14. Load tongs, fork, knife in tow vehicle
15. Load personal helmet, hat, sunglasses in vehicle
16. Remove frozen food from freeze and move to refrigerator

Saturday Morning

1. Remove food from refrigerator and place in coolers
2. Load coolers in tow vehicle, forks, knives, and tongs
3. Check that you have trailer keys
4. Go to event

After Event

1. OPEN THE NEXT EVENT for members only.
2. Account for all membership applications by checking roster to ensure all new members filled out an application.
3. Compile books for the event by:
a. Add all money in money bag
b. Subtract food cost
4. Compile Results
a. Downloading latest version from the web page and adding a new worksheet.
b. Copy the previous event and paste to new worksheet.
c. Then type over the new results.
d. Then update points page and small bore page
e. Save the file and e-mail to Kyle for posting
5. Write up a quick note on the web “News” page and welcome new members
6. On the Organizer Forum, start a recap of the event and solicit feedback.
7. Send mass e-mail with Google List using standard e-mail, updating the dates and locations.
8. Re-Organize and take inventory of trailer for next event.

In addition,

1. Check the Propane tanks and refill as necessary
2. Ensure the event has enough organizers
3. Check weather forecast and make the call to hold the event or cancel.
4. Order Port-a-Potty or have Joe M order at Frederick.
5. Post the Recap Post to the organizers

We should all realize that this process is done for EACH event. Adding a coffee maker to the trailer to fill, make, and clean is possible. Adding breakfast food may be too much. I suppose we could consider something like breakfast bars and coffee.

[Wade Chamberlain]

(we even had a particiapant want a refund when his parents were coming in town and had to leave early - this is after he already ran his 3 morning runs), disputing "services not rendered", returning cancelled checks.

I hope you made it clear to this clown that he can find some other club to autocross with.

I thought this year ran pretty smoothly. If the group wants to tweak the indexes, that's cool. My opinion is that CDC already goes above and beyond with the food and drink situation. I would be against adding to the already long organizer "to do" list that Ed posted above. Lunch is nice because participants don't have to leave the event to get food....this is helpful, especially for those who have changed to race tires. Coffee and breakfast though...we're all big boys and girls...we can each pick some up on the way TO the event, or bring it from home. I don't see a need...my opinion.

[DaveL20]

You guys should not have to mess with Coffee.

Everyone can buy or has an insulated coffee/travel mug anyways. I usually stop right before an event someplace and fill the thing up. I can drink it while changing tires, teching, ect.

Will usually stay hot enough for me to drink for up to 45 minutes to an hour.

I have not run with you guys in a couple of years but I still recommend you to anyone that asks and stay on the board to check on everyone.

You guys do a fantastic job and were always very driver friendly in my opinion.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Comments on Index:

Fred, do you have compiled results from your miata and Cobra when ran at the same time? A proper index should have them overlapping at least somewhat close, your the only data point that I know of that ran 2 cars.

Street tire index: A z1 star spec/Kumho XS is NOT a slick and nowhere close to the grip, theyve gotten better but so have full slicks. I do think maybe "closing the gap" is better, but a proper A6 will be ~2.1 seconds on a course faster than a Z1. Maybe bring the index to 1.03 instead of 1.035? If your saying a Star Spec is within .9 seconds on a 60 second course (if you assume a star spec is on par with our semi-slicks), I personally think your on crack. I think reducing it to 1.7 or 1.8 gap on a 60 second course is more in line.

Please read this to educate yourself on street tire vs r-comp where actual tests where handled with apple to apple comparison (they even mentioned that the gap would have been even larger had they had the car setup for r-comps):
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/measuring/

HP Index: This is where I think HIIIIIIIGH HP is penalized too high, but I also think there is too much of a gap between 250-350hp. I think bringing down 350+ HP, but then breaking out 250-300 while creating just one 300+ class (really unless you have AWD you cant put this power down anywhere on a CDC course).

[hepcatz]

Ed, in regards to your prep list, is it only the head organizer that does this or a team of organizers? How many organizers are there?

[dannykao]

Street tire index: A z1 star spec/Kumho XS is NOT a slick and nowhere close to the grip, theyve gotten better but so have full slicks. I do think maybe "closing the gap" is better, but a proper A6 will be ~2.1 seconds on a course faster than a Z1.

A couple of comments on slicks (with the best intentions, since slick is not allowed anyway):

R25B Hoosiers havent' changed in three years, and many think R25A (discontinued with 25B came out) was better for autox. Goodyear 160s hasn't change in 5 years. So slicks are no way near as improved as the new street tires.

I can't imagine A6s are 2.1 seconds faster than Z1, XS, or RE-11s at a typical CDC course; in the summer on a long course it's true. I am venture to guess there is not much advantage, if at all that R-Comp is faster than Z1 at the last event at Harry Grove.

The new crop of street tires are awesome. I am guessing they are closer to R-Comp than ever. I have read some discussions on other club on creating a street tire index, and it seems like the "experts' opinion" is when the weather is not and running on concrete, the handicap is 0.975. (R-comp time x 0.975 = Street tire time). On cool days and running on asphalt, the handicap is 0.980. To convert to CDC index, 1/0.975 = 1.025 (hot days) and 1/0.98 = 1.020 (cold days).

This is not to say the other club's index is correct, but it is from a much larger dataset and probably information worth considering on the tire index.

I do think instead of weight/HP, maybe should be a Power to weight ratio index. I can try to dig out some index formula in terms of power to weight ratio if folks are interested... JMHO.

JMHO.

[echan]

Ed, in regards to your prep list, is it only the head organizer that does this or a team of organizers? How many organizers are there?

The head organizer is responsible for everything. Sometimes the head organizer can delegate some of the tasks (and often does) to the other organizers. Some tasks like parking the trailer and unloaded back in Springfield typically takes two organizers.

The number of organizers varies depending on the event. We have about 25 different organizers. We have to have a lot of organizers just to ensure coverage over 20 or so autocross events. Some events, we have more organizers than we need and a few events we may be running short of organizers (which we will then recruit some trusted particiapants to help us out). Typically a CDC autocross runs with about 8 to 10 organizers. TNTs typically run with 6 to 8 organizers (TNT's tend not to need as much help).

When things get rough, you might notice the organizers not taking all their runs, not walking the course, and working more than enjoying the event. Being an organizer is definately not all fun and games (just ask Larry Casey or Denise Howell, our new organizers for 2010). The main focus of the organizers is to run the event in a safe manner, stay on schedule (you'll often see organizers always looking at their watches, calculating schedule), and ensure the participants have a good time (we always try to make at least one walk by and talk briefly to the participants to make sure they are happy and if they have any comments).

[dannykao]

Sorry, in my previous post I mentioned power to weight ratio, and that's not what I meant to say. I was trying to say that HP index might be a liitle too harsh, and weight index is a liitle too easy. Sorry for the confusion.