TrackDaze HPDE @ Summit Main on July 7-8, 2012

[ACoopeR]

I will be there Sunday, green mini #411


https://www.trackdaze.com/index.php?opt ... d=0&did=40

[david.valeri]

Red Miata (as if there won't be 10 of them), both days.

[D_Eclipse9916]

Trying to make it Sunday.

[phranquelynn]

Doing some work this week on the cars. If I can get them together this week, I'll sign up.

Silver MR2 and Multi-color (NOT nicely done) RX7. Both slow.

[hufflepuff]

I am doing a mud race (obstacle course run) on saturday but i'm doing the Trackdaze RDE on Monday. it was only $180, and should have a much thinner field.

[david.valeri]

I am doing a mud race (obstacle course run) on saturday but i'm doing the Trackdaze RDE on Monday. it was only $180, and should have a much thinner field.

Let me know how that goes. I'm curious if taking off work is worth it for these events. What program/track is the $180 price point?

[hufflepuff]

Is the trackdaze rde event on summit main.

[ACoopeR]

Is the trackdaze rde event on summit main.

yup, it looks like they have taken over the main circuit for all 4 days 7-10
https://www.trackdaze.com/index.php?opt ... d=0&did=33

[ACoopeR]

Let me know how that goes. I'm curious if taking off work is worth it for these events. What program/track is the $180 price point?

here is how they described it: https://www.trackdaze.com/index.php?opt ... cle&id=115

i have only done 'normal' events with them

[phranquelynn]

Signing up for Monday and Tuesday. Hope to see some CDC people out there.

[hufflepuff]

franklin ill b there in a silver e36 bmw in the solo group.

[phranquelynn]

franklin ill b there in a silver e36 bmw in the solo group.

great! i'm waiting for deadline day to reg just in case the weather forecast turns. i'm doing solo group too. bringing my silver mr2.

[hufflepuff]

I hope you guys survived the weekend; it was HOT! I had it much easier on Monday, in the mid-80's. But my morning runs were wet, and a bit hairy coming off of corners.

My thoughts on the RDE as a solo group participant:

LIKED:
-Tons of track time available (3 hrs/day). Two 30-min sessions and three 40-min(!) sessions for $180. Although, 40 minute sessions are very tiring mentally and physically (especially with stock leather seats and a belt that doesn't stay too tight). And you need to conserve the brakes and tires to make it all 40 minutes.
-Completely open passing, anywhere, no point-by. The way i feel a trackday (at the intermediate to advanced level) should be.
-Lots of space to string together some fast laps.

DISLIKED:
-Most of the cars were stripped and gutted sportscars/supercars (porsche 911 GT3, ferrari challenge car, corvette ZR1 with massive hoosier slicks...) on amazing tires, and i wasn't able to keep up with many people in my full interior 187k mile M3 on Hankook V12 Evo tires. (But strangely, i was able to close in on EVERYTHING, including prepped corvettes and spec miatas, going into turn 1... even with shoddy tires). Needless to say, I didn't get into many close battles (unlike trackdaze hpde events in the upper intermediate group)
-I actually missed having a productive classroom session. There was only one classroom and it didn't have any real discussion on technique. Guess i would have to sign up for the "racecraft" option for that.

Overall it was a good day. But i'm hurting for some respectable tires... i don't think i'd do another RDE without a decent set of extreme performance street tires. Just not very fun to watch everyone who spent more money than you walk away in the slow, highly tire-dependent turns while you keep up in high speed turns and catch up under braking. The amount of distance people put on me through turns 1 and 2 was ridiculous, even though i was right with them at the entry and driving at the adhesion limit through the full section.

[hufflepuff]

ps, i got some video i will try linking to later.

[03threefiftyz]

I hope you guys survived the weekend; it was HOT! I had it much easier on Monday, in the mid-80's. But my morning runs were wet, and a bit hairy coming off of corners.

My thoughts on the RDE as a solo group participant:

LIKED:
-Tons of track time available (3 hrs/day). Two 30-min sessions and three 40-min(!) sessions for $180. Although, 40 minute sessions are very tiring mentally and physically (especially with stock leather seats and a belt that doesn't stay too tight). And you need to conserve the brakes and tires to make it all 40 minutes.
-Completely open passing, anywhere, no point-by. The way i feel a trackday (at the intermediate to advanced level) should be.
-Lots of space to string together some fast laps.

DISLIKED:
-Most of the cars were stripped and gutted sportscars/supercars (porsche 911 GT3, ferrari challenge car, corvette ZR1 with massive hoosier slicks...) on amazing tires, and i wasn't able to keep up with many people in my full interior 187k mile M3 on Hankook V12 Evo tires. (But strangely, i was able to close in on EVERYTHING, including prepped corvettes and spec miatas, going into turn 1... even with shoddy tires). Needless to say, I didn't get into many close battles (unlike trackdaze hpde events in the upper intermediate group)
-I actually missed having a productive classroom session. There was only one classroom and it didn't have any real discussion on technique. Guess i would have to sign up for the "racecraft" option for that.

Overall it was a good day. But i'm hurting for some respectable tires... i don't think i'd do another RDE without a decent set of extreme performance street tires. Just not very fun to watch everyone who spent more money than you walk away in the slow, highly tire-dependent turns while you keep up in high speed turns and catch up under braking. The amount of distance people put on me through turns 1 and 2 was ridiculous, even though i was right with them at the entry and driving at the adhesion limit through the full section.

If you want something as a band aid to the belt situation...I have a CG lock I'm not using (and is new) and will sell cheap. Let me know...

[hufflepuff]

I have a bid on a pair of CG locks, so if that doesn't go through i will let you know. Thanks for the heads-up.

[david.valeri]

(But strangely, i was able to close in on EVERYTHING, including prepped corvettes and spec miatas, going into turn 1... even with shoddy tires). Needless to say, I didn't get into many close battles (unlike trackdaze hpde events in the upper intermediate group)

You sure that isn't the illusion of the car in front dropping from 150 to 50 while you are still doing 115? You will gain physical distance on the car in front entering the turn, but the real measure is the time gap between the two cars.

When I check my mirror going into turn 1, it always looks like everyone is out braking me because the distance decreases so rapidly. By the time we leave turn one, we are back where we started (at least until the other car can apply full throttle).

[03threefiftyz]

I have a bid on a pair of CG locks, so if that doesn't go through i will let you know. Thanks for the heads-up.

I only have the one, but let me know.

[hufflepuff]

(But strangely, i was able to close in on EVERYTHING, including prepped corvettes and spec miatas, going into turn 1... even with shoddy tires). Needless to say, I didn't get into many close battles (unlike trackdaze hpde events in the upper intermediate group)

You sure that isn't the illusion of the car in front dropping from 150 to 50 while you are still doing 115? You will gain physical distance on the car in front entering the turn, but the real measure is the time gap between the two cars.

When I check my mirror going into turn 1, it always looks like everyone is out braking me because the distance decreases so rapidly. By the time we leave turn one, we are back where we started (at least until the other car can apply full throttle).

This is a clip from a few of the braking zones:
http://youtu.be/pO7yTa0LiQU

[hufflepuff]

Illusion?

[david.valeri]

Hard to tell, but it looks like you (the driver) were out braking the Civic (who may have been checking up because of the Miata), but the Civic walked you from turn-in on. Did you have to check up to avoid hitting him entering the turn?

That first Vet was a little off line going into 10 because of the pass, but he missed the apex by 2 feet and track out by 6. I would not use him as a comparison.

[hufflepuff]

Hard to tell, but it looks like you (the driver) were out braking the Civic (who may have been checking up because of the Miata), but the Civic walked you from turn-in on. Did you have to check up to avoid hitting him entering the turn?

That first Vet was a little off line going into 10 because of the pass, but he missed the apex by 2 feet and track out by 6. I would not use him as a comparison.

Yes I almost hit the civic at entry of turn 1. He was turbo and 275mm hoosier slicks so even though I was wot after turn 1 he got away. And yes I think that red vette was eating mcdonalds or something thru turn 3.

[D_Eclipse9916]

A bit of advice, compare data, times and video from similiar cars. Otherwise you will come to wrong conclusions and waste time, money and effort.

PS- Dont worry about tires, you've got a good set. If you start to get in the mindset that you have to "buy" equipment to keep up, you are going to be sorely disappointed when that bone stock guys gets underneath you. I know its hard to break that mindset but you have to.

If you would like some video of similar cars let me know. I have an m3 myself with just springs/shocks, aero and tires that I race at Summit and and I dont do too bad ; you are more than welcome to ride along as well as I have noticed that helped my students a lot. I am a huge advocate for street tires, you will learn way more for way less money staying on crappy tires that jumping into hoosiers or BFGs that will hide mistakes.

[hufflepuff]

I wouldn't say that max performance 280 treadware relatively narrow hankook v12 evo tires are a "good set" but I understand your point. I feel that A set of "good" street tires such as hankook rs3 or dunlop ss or kumho xs should be quite an improvement.

I run billsteins with sagging eibach pro kit springs and camber plates up front and factory camber rear. Stock roll bars. Full interior. Stock exhaust. I would say I am far from "buying equipment " to keep up. But it is obvious in the video that my available cornering grip is lower than the other cars. I was at or near the traction limit around each turn.

[D_Eclipse9916]

I wouldn't say that max performance 280 treadware relatively narrow hankook v12 evo tires are a "good set" but I understand your point. I feel that A set of "good" street tires such as hankook rs3 or dunlop ss or kumho xs should be quite an improvement.

I run billsteins with sagging eibach pro kit springs and camber plates up front and factory camber rear. Stock roll bars. Full interior. Stock exhaust. I would say I am far from "buying equipment " to keep up. But it is obvious in the video that my available cornering grip is lower than the other cars. I was at or near the traction limit around each turn.

*twitch* you hit my nerve when you said you were near the traction limit around the turn. When your making the tires sing, you are at the tire's limit for your particular line and input. If you carried a differnet line, you would be able to pick up more speed with the same traction limit. If you really think you are "at the limit" for the tires, I beg you to let Mike Skeen, or hell even me as a chump drive your car.

Dont get offended, WE ALL ARE doing this constantly: that is learning. No one wakes up one day and is instantly Michael Schumacher or whatever best driver you can think of. I have done this long enough to know I dont know everyhthing and definitely not the best driver out there. Here are a few tips if you want, and you are more than welcome to pick my brain. I even learn from students when I am instructing, so dont close your ears, youll only make yourself slower.

You are overbraking and not "carrying" enough speed through most of those corners. That is why they are getting you. It is an illusion that you are outbraking them, they are coming to a lesser speed while you are behind at a higher speed (closure rate). That is why we look at time splits in data analysis, and why they do time splits on TV to show actually how far behind. Why they get you in corners (the vettes the civic etc) is because of carrying speed. Its very common to overslow the car and most drivers battle between this and underslowing the car. Itll be a battle your whole driving career!