Summit Point August 17th

[DaveL20]

I'm going to be in Cumberland Fri and Saturday. My engineer, er ah, the cars owner will be doing the HPDE in the coupe on Saturday. He's a great guy, as long as he doesn't wreak it or beat me.

Man could Redline have picked a worse weekend.

Cumberland, SCCA in FedEx, there is something else going on also that I cannot remember currently also.

[Hobbs5313]

I saw the coupe listed for HPDE on Saturday. I'll be there both days. It should be fun. May be it's a good thing that they have all these other events this weekend. I think I see only two drivers listed for Modified FWD. If it stays that way, Dave, you're guaranteed at least a second place finish. I won't be as fortunate in Modified RWD. That seems to be one of the two biggest groups. I'm going for my personal best lap time. My best last year was 1:43.39.

[DaveL20]

If all things stay equal it should be pretty tight with Justin in the XA.

He autocrossed with CDC a couple of times out at Manassas. He ran last year at the Redline event also.

I think I was 1 or 2 seconds faster than him last year. Hopefully my times will improve a little due to better driving and he has not picked up as much on me.

I am suprised that the PTuning TC is not running also. They pulled all the way to Nashville to run with Redline but do not seemed to be signed up for this year at a more local event. Ross Miller was like 6 or 7 seconds faster than me last year in that car.

[Hobbs5313]

May be the economy's affecting PTuning or they could just be waiting until the last minute to sign up. Either way, good luck in your class on Sunday.

[DaveL20]

Good luck to you also.

We will see you there I am sure.

[FredK]

No pressure, I predict.
Dave 1:44- 1:45
Calvin 1:40 - 1:41

[DaveL20]

I know it is early but forecast looks great.

Only in the 80's with low humidity. Be good power making weather.

[Hobbs5313]

No pressure, I predict.
Dave 1:44- 1:45
Calvin 1:40 - 1:41

Fred, what's your prediction for your time? 1:37-1:38?

I know it is early but forecast looks great.

Only in the 80's with low humidity. Be good power making weather.

I think that's probably more true with force induction cars. I think your Focus is supercharged, correct?

[FredK]

Having never actually driven the car I'm a little reluctant to guess, but on paper it should be near your #'s.

My engine likes 30 degree air, not 80's.

[Hobbs5313]

Fred, if you get around those times, I think you'll be in contention for the top three. I think it just depends on who shows up on Sunday. Good luck.

[DaveL20]

My car is supercharged yes.

Modifed FWD just keeps getting more interesting. Another driver has signed up and all 3 guys are within 1 second of each other last year.

[DaveL20]

Oh well so much for a win this weekend.

PTuning just signed up to run Modified and Unlimited in the same car.

Now I guess it will be a battle for 2nd place

[Hobbs5313]

I just noticed that too. It looks like modified FWD got a few more cars now. GL anyway. See you guys this weekend. I'm not sure if AndrewTech is going to be there this year. I know Jake was there last year.

[Hobbs5313]

Well, Fred, Dave and I were in one piece after this weekend's event. Wow. What a crash fest that was. I don't think I've ever seen so many cars wreck on track. I ended up with a personal best at Shenandoah with a 1:42.5. I could have gone faster in the second time attack session, but a RX-7 blew an engine and dumped oil on the bridge straight, so I only got one lap in and decided to pit. I didn't want to take a chance with wrecking my car. I hope everyone made it home safe.

[DaveL20]

From my count there were 9 cars wrecked during the 2 day event and at least 4 blown up that I have heard of.

That is the only thing I don't like about the Redline events is they get out of hand at times.

Crash count was

2 S2000 - Saturday in HPDE
2 Corvettes - Saturday in HPDE
1 BMW M3 - Total loss on Sunday
1 Scion TC - Sunday jumped the hill and hit the wall at the end of the bowl
2 EVO's - Suday
1 WRX - Sunday

Motors

1 Focus
1 Scion Xa
1 Mazda
There was something else on Sunday also, might have been another one on Saturday also.

I did not run any faster than last year but ran a pretty consistent 1.48 - 1.50 every time out. Times were very consistant and I got to load up and drive home so that was a good weekend.

[DaveL20]

I just talked to Nikolas from Redline.

He told me they are in talks to move the event to the Main track next year.

MIght be a little less carnage.

[Tedzilla]

9 cars seems high... was there any pattern to where drivers got in trouble?
I was talking to a friend at FedEX yesterday who's doing a PDX on the Shenandoah and hasn't run that track. I went through not early entry/apexing 8, getting airborn on the Bridge Straight and Karussel entry, not early apexing Big Bend (16) and a couple of ways to handle the Loop (17). Were there other spots where people had big trouble?

Ted

[DaveL20]

Seemed to be everywhere.

A couple in the Carosel. Either blowing the corner and hitting the wall passanger side first.
1 over the hill.
1 pitched out of the bowl
1 on the backstretch. Dropped 2 wheels off on the left coming through what everyone there was calling Little Bend and jerked it back on causing a tank slapping episode.

Not sure where the rest happened did not talk to everyone.

Ross Miller in the PTuning Scion knocked the whole right front off that thing. Jumped the hill and got squirrley and hit could not get stopped or straight into the bowl and hit the wall almost head on.
Guy in the M3 had the most damage I have ever seen on a car at the track at a local event like that. Right rear bumper was literally pushed into the back seat. Tore the right front control arm in two. Not tore it off the car. Tore it completly in 2.

[mp923]

9 cars seems high... was there any pattern to where drivers got in trouble?

Ted

Shenandoah also has very little run-off room making it dangerous. I wonder why they didn't use the main track...?

[FredK]

From what I saw, and I saw most of it, their was too much testostorne. Most of the guys who had problems had tons of track time there. The competition was very tight and they were pushing way to hard too early in the event trying to make a statement, they succeeded. They don't have it on the main track because they want to keep the speed down a little for the very fast street class. street class.

The coupe did not have the advertised power.
Fred

[Tedzilla]

To say they didn't use Main Track "to keep the speeds down..." doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather go off 25 mph faster almost anywhere on the Main Track than the Shenandoah...
I've instructed at the Shenandoah for S2K, Mercedes, SCCA and CDC, I've got serious doubts whether it's a suitable track for racing high power cars. It's great fun and a great learning track but serious racing requires more forgiving surroundings.

Ted

[Hobbs5313]

I think it was a combination of many things that led up to all these wrecks. I'm just surprised that we didn't have that many last year. First off, when drivers who are at a track event for the very first time get signed off to go solo during Saturday's HPDE after one or two sessions, you're just asking for something to happen. Secondly, I think it's the environment. Even for Saturday's HPDE, there's a sense of competition to get fast times even for relatively new drivers. Anyone can rent transponders for the HPDE on Saturday and get your times posted. In addition, the event also doesn't require any driver to have some sort of a competition license, and they don't ask for or check your credentials. So, Saturday's HPDE could be your first time on a track and also be registered for the unlimited class (if you have the right tires for it) for Sunday's time trials. Lastly, I think this type of event tends to attract modified cars that are on the brink of pushing their equipment too hard (too much boost, power, etc.). So, considering all these factors, plus the fact that the event's held on Shenandoah, it shouldn't have really surprised me that we had all these wrecks.

So, even though it was a crazy weekend, I don't have regrets about participating in this event, which I also did last year. The time trail aspect of this event really forced me to get out of my comfort zone and really push myself and my car beyond what I had ever done before. It was an invaluable learning experience about myself and my car that I don't think I could have gained any where else. I also ran in the advanced group (pass any where with a point-by) this year with super high-powered cars, and that also added to my learning experience.

I guess the question comes down to whether this weekend could have been different if it were held at Summit Main instead of Shenandoah. I really don't know. What's for sure is that Main has a lot more areas where going off track won't put your car on a flat bed. Would I do it again next year? Most likely no, but that's what I said about this year's event too. I think NASA's TT events would be safer, and the classification of cars would be a lot more even.

[kyle.bowker]

I wonder why they didn't use the main track...?

The same reason CDC didn't get to use the main track: virtually every weekend from March - November is already booked by someone else who is much higher up in the pecking order than us. It's like getting season tickets to the Green Bay Packers. You can put your name on a list today and you might get a phone call in 25 years saying their ready to take your money now.

[kyle.bowker]

Ross Miller in the PTuning Scion knocked the whole right front off that thing.

Bummer! I know that car meant a lot to PTuning.

[TubeDriver]

Redline may have used Shenandoah because it is cheaper. They only had 10 instructors. Shenandoah only has a single turn with run-off so it can be a costly track to run on. I have about ~30 days on Shenandoah and have had a few offs (no damage) but in general you have to hold back at many places to keep safe. The Redline philosophy is very different from your typical East Coast HPDE and not really what I am interested in so I will probably not instruct for them again.