Track day, 07/10/2009

[jimk351c]

I'm signed up for this one:

http://www.nvcorvetteclub.com/nvccforum ... php?t=2874

Fee is only $185 for Summit Main.

[defylogik]

Fire extinguisher required? UGH. If my car lights on fire i'm probably not sticking around to put it out. You'll see the dust cloud of my feet running away as fast as humanly possible Hehe

[Gonz]

have fun. I did their event last July 11 at Summit Main.

I guess I've been spoiled by running with bigger clubs, but the organization was a little lax for a track day. Specifically the classroom part, meeting up with the instructor and the quality of my particular instructor.

I ran advanced group and was able to dump him after the first session. I don't mind an instructor as it's a great way to learn more, but I think I knew more about the track than this guy.

You can pick up a fire extinguisher cheap. They sell them at Wal mart for about $12. Just mount it between the seats or in front of or behind. I bought one just for that event.

have fun

[Sheikh]

As part of the track team for NVCC, I find it highly worrying that you took it upon yourself to "dump" your instructor. The NVCC guidelines and track insurance states that ALL students must ALWAYS have an instructor in their vehicle on track at any High Speed Driving Event (school) the club does. The exception is for competitions where the driver holds an NVCC High Speed competition license. The July event last year was not a competition event and was indeed a drivers school. The fact that you went out on the track without your instructor makes you in direct violation of the rules and guidelines that you signed at the event start. NVCC rules state that you should have been ejected from the event for that violation.

Also, as a tip for the future:

You know how you can tell a guy isn't that great of a driver?

When he has to tell you how great of a driver he is.


By the way Jim, I'm glad to see you signed up again. I love seeing that cougar out there. That thing is a blast. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Oh, I live in Manassas and have a spare fire extinguisher and mount. Let me know if you want to swing by and get it. It's all yours and you can keep it for future events as well. Just my way of saying thanks for supporting the club.

Sheikh

[Wade Chamberlain]

Sheikh - do the NVCC events not sign off students to drive solo (especially advanced groups) once they've demonstrated their abilities to their instructor's satisfaction?

[jimk351c]

By the way Jim, I'm glad to see you signed up again. I love seeing that cougar out there. That thing is a blast. I'll see you in a couple of weeks.Sheikh

Thanks, Sheikh. I always have a great time with your club. Looking forward to hanging out with all of you again!

[Sheikh]

Replies to both posts above:

Yea, because we have to pay the insurance for our schools and they are "schools", it states even advanced students need instructors. Honestly, if they can see that you know what you're doing, they just ballast the car and only speak up if they see an issue. Honestly, unless your car is corner weighted, the extra 180 + lbs isn't going to do much (unless it's a miata ) and often times, I like it because I can focus on driving and let the instructor pay attention to all of the flaggers. No matter how much seat time you have, if you're driving in a school (and not competition), how can having another set of eyes hurt? I rode with a buddy of mine that has been doing this for WAY LONGER THAN ME and noticed that when he was correcting high speed oversteer, he let go of the wheel and let it spin after correcting. I brought it up and he had no idea he was doing it. He appreciated the feedback.

As for the club, it's our insurance. As far as I know, we've only let one driver run solo after being signed off on. He was a CDC driver with a open air kit car that only had rollover protection for the driver and we didnt' want to send him home. AND, he had to "qualify" by driving his instructors Z06. We had to get waivers out the wazoo and had to get a million people to give the go ahead. Unfortunately, he blew his rear end that day anyway & had to leave early. Nice guy though.

Jim, I don't remember if you've done the track walk with us or not but we'll be there on the 9th setting up. If you'd like to do the track walk, just let us know. A bunch of us may go out to dinner afterward as well. You're more than welcome to join. Oh, and just let me know if you need the fire ext & it's yours buddy. We're over by Liberia and the PW parkway. See ya!!!

[jimk351c]

Jim, I don't remember if you've done the track walk with us or not but we'll be there on the 9th setting up. If you'd like to do the track walk, just let us know. A bunch of us may go out to dinner afterward as well. You're more than welcome to join. Oh, and just let me know if you need the fire ext & it's yours buddy. We're over by Liberia and the PW parkway. See ya!!!

I think that was someone else complaining about the extinguisher, I'm good. Yes, I ran your low speed event last year. And, my buddy Ralph who also has a yellow cougar ('67), ran your Hotter Then Hell event. We'll both be out there this time. He lives in Berryville (about 15 min from the track) and I'll be staying with him on the 9th. What time is the track walk?

I am not far from you. I live near the intersection of Hoadly road and PWPkwy.

[Sheikh]

Okay, cool. So this will be your first high speed event with us? You know, I absolutely love it when the more "vintage" cars come out for the high speed events. Theres just something about seeing owners flog their big beasts around the track. You guys work your asses off... The front straight will probably be the fastest that car ever been. I can't wait to get some pics of you guys going into the carousel.

I think the track walk will be around 6:30 or so. Miriam has her new hip & my wife & I bought her an electric scooter for the paddock so she should be good to go. I'll see you out there buddy.

[jimk351c]

Okay, cool. So this will be your first high speed event with us? You know, I absolutely love it when the more "vintage" cars come out for the high speed events. Theres just something about seeing owners flog their big beasts around the track. You guys work your asses off... The front straight will probably be the fastest that car ever been. I can't wait to get some pics of you guys going into the carousel.

I did two days of open track on the Thunderbolt circuit @ NJMP last August (SAAC). They've got a long straightaway there as well. That was about as fast as I'd want to go without a roll cage

[Gonz]

As part of the track team for NVCC, I find it highly worrying that you took it upon yourself to "dump" your instructor. Sheikh

ok. Maybe it was a bad choice of words. Instructor told me after one session he " didn't feel comfortable at these speeds without a harness and roll bar" He asked not to go back out with me the 2nd, 3rd and 4th session of the if I was OK with that. It was his suggestion and he asked me if I was oK going solo. My car had the required safet equipment for "stock"type cars.

I have a stock motor Mustang with 215HP and 3300lbs of weight. Not a fast car I'm glad he didn't have to suffer a ride along in a Z06.

I don't want to take this thread further off topic, but the rest of your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote. I didn't write " I was a great driver' I wrote I knew the track better than the instructor ( who may have been from out of state, etc.) and apparently doesn't know the rules of your own organization. Nor apparently do any of your track marshalls, pit out crew, corner workers or anyone else who could have black flagged me for going solo. Like I said it was rather lax organization, compared to other groups, and this is just an example. You can take my comments as an opportunity to improve the event,or you can bash me. Whatever. Your choice.

Sorry to get off topic. HOpe you guys have a good event.

[1M3ANM3]

As part of the track team for NVCC, I find it highly worrying that you took it upon yourself to "dump" your instructor. The NVCC guidelines and track insurance states that ALL students must ALWAYS have an instructor in their vehicle on track at any High Speed Driving Event (school) the club does....... The fact that you went out on the track without your instructor makes you in direct violation of the rules and guidelines that you signed at the event start. NVCC rules state that you should have been ejected from the event for that violation.

Also, as a tip for the future:

You know how you can tell a guy isn't that great of a driver?

When he has to tell you how great of a driver he is.
Sheikh

Hey Skeikh,

Here is a future tip for you!! A guy with 3 posts on this forum shouldn't come on and try to slam an organizer with over 300 posts . It makes him look like a bit of a tool. Also, the instructor should have been aware of the rules just as the rest of the event staff should have been aware of the rules. Apparently, they chose to not do anything for three sessions about a driver going solo. Maybe, they should have thrown themselves out of the event for not following their own rules.

Fernando

[Sheikh]

Wow. Don't get your pantys in a bunch. I'm just looking for some info. With all due respect to Ed & CDC, I don't autocross so I don't really surf the CDC forum. The post was brought to my attention by another racer.

Anybody that has organized a high speed event knows that you use instructors from all different groups : PCA, SCCA, NASA, NCCC, etc. Not all instructors actually pay attention to the rules for the group they are running with.

Even though this event was 2+ years ago, I will talk to our pit out marshall & make sure he verifies any solo drivers are instructors. Gonzo, any chance you remember your instructors name? If he still instructs for the club I'd like to make sure he is aware of his mistake so it doesn't happen again. Thanks for the feedback guys. See you out there & keep them shiney side up...

[Wade Chamberlain]

, I like it because I can focus on driving and let the instructor pay attention to all of the flaggers.

That's a REALLY bad habit to get into.

[Sheikh]

Yea, I know it's a bad habit. I subconsciously find myself relying on him sometimes though. I need to stop that...

Anyway, Gonzo, any info you can remember about that instructor?

By the way, we've come up with a solution. Each student will have a red, blue or green writst band (advanced, intermediate or novice) and Yellow for instructors. Each driver and instructor will have to show the pit marshall their wristbands before leaving the pit. If the driver is a student, the passenger MUST have a yellow wrist band before leaving.

This past week at the Cadillac event one of the students took it upon himself to take a friend out on the track with him instead of an instructor. He lost it and took another car out with him. The guy with out an instructor totalled his car and the other driver (innocent one) had a lot of damage done to their car.

My father always told me "Learn from your mistakes but also learn from the mistakes of others. That way you benefit from the knowledge but don't have to pay the consequences". If only I had listened to him more often..... Our club WILL learn from the mistakes of others. See you guys out there. Be safe.

[DaveL20]

Yea, I know it's a bad habit. I subconsciously find myself relying on him sometimes though. I need to stop that...

Anyway, Gonzo, any info you can remember about that instructor?

By the way, we've come up with a solution. Each student will have a red, blue or green writst band (advanced, intermediate or novice) and Yellow for instructors. Each driver and instructor will have to show the pit marshall their wristbands before leaving the pit. If the driver is a student, the passenger MUST have a yellow wrist band before leaving.

This past week at the Cadillac event one of the students took it upon himself to take a friend out on the track with him instead of an instructor. He lost it and took another car out with him. The guy with out an instructor totalled his car and the other driver (innocent one) had a lot of damage done to their car.

My father always told me "Learn from your mistakes but also learn from the mistakes of others. That way you benefit from the knowledge but don't have to pay the consequences". If only I had listened to him more often..... Our club WILL learn from the mistakes of others. See you guys out there. Be safe.

The wrist bands are a nice idea but if you are wearing a uniform and gloves you cannot get to the wristband easily at pit out to show the marshalls without getting everything messed up and holding up the line to get resituated.

I would suggest stickers on the corner of the windshields. NASA does this at Hyperfest and their other HPDE events and it works really well. They use the "stick on dots" from Office Depot, ect. The big 2" ones in the upper drivers corner. The pit marshall at the entry to the grid checks the sticker and the car to make sure everyone is where they belong. The wristband on the instructor would still work, since most would not be wearing gloves but for the driver it is a pain checking at grid out before going on the track.

Just a suggestion.

[Sheikh]

We use the dots as well but want to make sure the driver is the right one. I wear a full suit and gloves and can just pull my glvoe back to show the wrist band. Shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the input though. See ya guys.

[Sheikh]

Jim, shoot me your email address. I got some really good pictures of you & your other cougar buddy on the front straight. I'll email them to you since I can't figure out how to post them here. I also got some of you guys in the slalom. You know, we didn't hear the end of how everybody hated the slalom for that one session. We did it for a reason. EVERYBODY was sooooo concerned with going fast that we wanted to throw a little car control exercise in to show people that sometimes you have to go slow to go fast. Also to force them to look ahead. It was obvious who had autocrossed before & who hadn't... You saw how many cones were left untouched.....

Oh, guys, we've made a change in our sign off procedure. Seeing as how the economy is in the crapper & most clubs are having a hard time getting people out to the track, we've decided to sign off on high level intermediate & advanced students to run alone. We were able to get approval from NCCC and the insurance company. The student can run solo ONLY if the in car instructor signs off after a session AND the chief instructor is able to take a look at previous track experience & agrees. We actually had 6 people soloing in the advanced group on Friday.

Anyway, thanks for coming Jim. What a great day. We hope to see you out there for future events. Have a great rest of your weekend.

[jimk351c]

I had a blast! Obviously, the slalom was where I was most comfortable

Thanks, I would appreciate any and all photos of the Cougars. I can be reached at: jimk351c@yahoo.com

Looking forward to the next one...

[Tim.R]

Fill us in some more! What other Cougars were there?

Do you have any pictures you can post?

Tim

[jimk351c]

Tim,
Ralph ('67 Dan Gurney Special) and I were both out there in our Cougars, as well as a sea of late model Corvettes (of course) and many high performance late model Mustangs. Basically, Ralph and I were moving road blocks

A couple of folks have promised to send photos / video. I'll share as soon as I have them.

Hope your project is going well.

[Sheikh]

Jim, I'm working on getting some pics up now on photobucket. I spent more time driving than taking pictures though. Here is a link to some of the sorry video from the intermediate group. Don't judge me.......... I'm still sorting the car, AND MYSELF, out after the rollover in turn 3. These aren't my best laps by any means but a steady progress to taking my skirt off and becoming less of a little girl after wrecking the car.

I know what you mean about being a rolling road block. Here I am in my little Miata in a group of intermediate drivers in 500 HP corvettes and supercharged Mustangs. I felt like just welding an arm on the roof giving a permanent point by sign.... Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPHoMqVosJo

I'll get the photos up as soon as I can. See ya!

[Sheikh]

Here are the pics. Mostly of the novice group. Some of the intermediate group my wife took and some of the advanced and instructor group as well. I made them public so feel free to save them for your own. See ya!!

http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z60/ ... ll%202009/

[jimk351c]

These are great. Thanks for sharing!

[Sheikh]

Jim, would you ever consider taking that beast onto the Shenandoah Circuit?