EMRA @ Summit Point November 14th

[defylogik]

Dave -

EMRA is like the wild west of motorsports

Lap times are posted at mylaps. -
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=614309

Congrats on your 1:31.4 (and 1st place finish)

-Scott

[DaveL20]

I have seen less stuff torn up at an EMRA time trial than I ever have at a NASA event.

Since EMRA travels so much there are never enough instructors. They also don't pay the instructors so alot of people won't show up just because of that to instruct.

The class results are posted also on the EMRA site.

http://www.emraracing.org/RESULTS/resul ... _setup.htm

[milkmandan]

Great time out there on Sunday, Dave took 1st in Miata Challenge while I took 3rd, and James Newman took 2nd in ST-5.

My video from the event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq6-oKMdWI8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA3zkYGqJ2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNr1f7mh0JE

[david.valeri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY0jwjFOrqM

With turkey crossing.

[DaveL20]

Dave -

EMRA is like the wild west of motorsports

Lap times are posted at mylaps. -
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=614309

Congrats on your 1:31.4 (and 1st place finish)

-Scott

Can you give me some feedback on the Wild West comment? I am not offended by it but just trying to help EMRA with image and attandance and wanted to get feedback on this for them.

Dave

[milkmandan]

Dave -

EMRA is like the wild west of motorsports

Lap times are posted at mylaps. -
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=614309

Congrats on your 1:31.4 (and 1st place finish)

-Scott

Can you give me some feedback on the Wild West comment? I am not offended by it but just trying to help EMRA with image and attandance and wanted to get feedback on this for them.

Dave

Since I share the same sentiment, I'll add my 2 cents. EMRA is one of my favorite clubs, but I feel like the general safety level is significantly lower than other organizations I have run with (Trackdaze, Mercedes-Benz, etc). Last year at Summit they had 2 cars roll over, 1 in the very first session of the day! At the event in Pocono this year, at least 3 cars broke down in the first session of the advanced group, creating several dangerous situations on track. Numerous black flags every event for late or aggressive passes. Just on Sunday I had a guy pass me in the braking zone of turn 1 with 4 wheels locked up, AFTER THE CHECKERED FLAG, in the first session of the day.

I love running with EMRA because its affordable, competitive, fun, and a great atmosphere. But I'm aware that some of the drivers have a little too much red-mist, or could stand to give their car an inspection before rolling out on track.

[DaveL20]

The guy in the Bimmer that wrecked last year at Summit was not a regular with EMRA.

As far as safety goes tech is the only thing I wish was a little stronger. The black flags for late passes and the crazy stuff the guys get talked to. I have been in on those conversations. You can also talk to the organizers if you feel someone is unsafe and they will observe and talk to them if neccesary. I think part of the red mist with EMRA comes from every lap is a hot lap. We talked about that at the beginning of the year as a possible concern. They used to do like the SCCA and run a Hot session where they were the only time that laps were timed but you usually lost 1 whole session doing it because it was 2 laps at the end of the day. I like the current situation much better.

As far as stuff breaking there was alot of stuff at Pocono that broke. Most of it was motors and transmissions though. Tech is not going to catch that at all in any organization.

I will pass it along though so the powers that be know.

[milkmandan]

http://wrtsportsphotos.zenfolio.com/f249694913

[D_Eclipse9916]

Since I share the same sentiment, I'll add my 2 cents. EMRA is one of my favorite clubs, but I feel like the general safety level is significantly lower than other organizations I have run with (Trackdaze, Mercedes-Benz, etc). Last year at Summit they had 2 cars roll over, 1 in the very first session of the day! At the event in Pocono this year, at least 3 cars broke down in the first session of the advanced group, creating several dangerous situations on track. Numerous black flags every event for late or aggressive passes. Just on Sunday I had a guy pass me in the braking zone of turn 1 with 4 wheels locked up, AFTER THE CHECKERED FLAG, in the first session of the day.

I love running with EMRA because its affordable, competitive, fun, and a great atmosphere. But I'm aware that some of the drivers have a little too much red-mist, or could stand to give their car an inspection before rolling out on track.

You do have to remember this is a time trial situation where people with no experience/little experience get to go out and time. The red mist is a large part of what NASA/SCCA/BMWCCA trains people out of before they ever even get out of HPDEs and into time trial. (Takes a lot longer than just a few events to get check ride in those groups for competition/time trials).

So getting red mist, bad situations is going to be a lot more likely. I knew from the second he said "unless your a basketcase you will get soloed after a few sessions" that your just more likely to get into something even though there is less traffic. NASA/SCCA/BMWCCA run between 40-60 cars at the same time on track, and have a stellar record, even more when you compare it to other organizations that typically have ~20 cars on track at the same time.

[flohtingPoint]

It was a very long day from getting up early, getting the trailer and such, but I had a blast. I was really happy that the weather was nice and that the track wasn't ice cold.

[defylogik]

Dave -

EMRA is like the wild west of motorsports

Lap times are posted at mylaps. -
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=614309

Congrats on your 1:31.4 (and 1st place finish)

-Scott

Can you give me some feedback on the Wild West comment? I am not offended by it but just trying to help EMRA with image and attandance and wanted to get feedback on this for them.

Dave

Since I share the same sentiment, I'll add my 2 cents. EMRA is one of my favorite clubs, but I feel like the general safety level is significantly lower than other organizations I have run with (Trackdaze, Mercedes-Benz, etc). Last year at Summit they had 2 cars roll over, 1 in the very first session of the day! At the event in Pocono this year, at least 3 cars broke down in the first session of the advanced group, creating several dangerous situations on track. Numerous black flags every event for late or aggressive passes. Just on Sunday I had a guy pass me in the braking zone of turn 1 with 4 wheels locked up, AFTER THE CHECKERED FLAG, in the first session of the day.

I love running with EMRA because its affordable, competitive, fun, and a great atmosphere. But I'm aware that some of the drivers have a little too much red-mist, or could stand to give their car an inspection before rolling out on track.

^what Josh said. I'd say that pretty much sums it up. Well actually the video i have from this last event of a dirt track car driving backwards on the track pretty much sums it up.... but i haven't posted that video yet. lol. Guy dropped all his coolant, full course black flag, then decided to take a parade lap around the track while everyone was waiting in the pits, potentially leaking anti-freeze all over the track. (turns out he only had water, so incident avoided, but still). This was the guys first time on a road course, was driving like a maniac, but for some reason they put him in the advanced group, when he should have been in the student group. Because you have oval racing experience does not mean you aren't a hazard for the REST OF US. You may have a full cage and all that safety gear, which might make you think you can drive like an idiot, but a lot of us out there don't have that gear, and we don't want to die due to YOUR negligence.

Ok rant over.

I always have a good time with EMRA, the crowd is great and friendly and i really like the laid back atmosphere, but some of the drivers haven't got a clue, and get solo'd off almost immediately. A few idiots aren't going to stop me from showing up and having fun.

[DaveL20]

Yea the late model guys were figure 8 guys. The brown car was a hazzard the guy in the green car was not bad when I was running with him. He was pretty courteous. The other guy was a hazard though.

[DaveL20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf27Yh8Mf8M

[defylogik]

Dave, you beat me by .3 seconds for the day hit my personal best out at summit main that day with a 1.29. As Josh predicted, I found the limit of HP+ brake pads in under 5 laps. There were a few moments when i was questioning the ability to bring this 3600lb couch on wheels to a stop hahahah

After watching your video, i will have to try your line in 5, 7 and 10 to see if it adds some time. I'm not sure i can get away with apexing that early in 10 though. Too chicken sh*t. lol

[DaveL20]

That was my personal best also out there. I have run 1.30s on the stop watches but never been on timer.

I moved to the blue group after 1st session due to catching the back half in 2 laps in white group.

I love hanging it out through 10. That is the corner I am most comfortable with. I think I have more time in 1 and 2 and then the 5, 6, and 7 section. I think there might be another second or so in the car.

[defylogik]

Shot from the rear facing camera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqV4Bhi4gmQ

Youtube made me replace my sweet zz top music

[D_Eclipse9916]

Dave, you beat me by .3 seconds for the day hit my personal best out at summit main that day with a 1.29. As Josh predicted, I found the limit of HP+ brake pads in under 5 laps. There were a few moments when i was questioning the ability to bring this 3600lb couch on wheels to a stop hahahah

After watching your video, i will have to try your line in 5, 7 and 10 to see if it adds some time. I'm not sure i can get away with apexing that early in 10 though. Too chicken sh*t. lol

Ditch the HP+ for real track work. At summit, not being chickenshit can bring down a lot of time with no real effort.

[DaveL20]

Dave, you beat me by .3 seconds for the day hit my personal best out at summit main that day with a 1.29. As Josh predicted, I found the limit of HP+ brake pads in under 5 laps. There were a few moments when i was questioning the ability to bring this 3600lb couch on wheels to a stop hahahah

After watching your video, i will have to try your line in 5, 7 and 10 to see if it adds some time. I'm not sure i can get away with apexing that early in 10 though. Too chicken sh*t. lol

Ditch the HP+ for real track work. At summit, not being chickenshit can bring down a lot of time with no real effort.

I was thinking the same thing. I run stock Ford pads for normal duty and switch them the day before the event to CarboTech XP10s. I can run them to and from and event if need be and the switch back. Switch brake fluid also. I run Motul all year round in my car. Flush it out once a year and start all over fresh the next year.

[phranquelynn]

A couple laps in traffic until a red MR2 decides to spray some fluids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

My fastest lap. Approximately 1:32. Reading taken from camera. Far from accurate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

Still learning so would love some feedback. I know I'm not hitting some of the apexes as cleanly as I should. Aside from that, would love to get your input.

[DaveL20]

Get into turn 1 deeper. You lifted and coasted a long way in. Also into 5 you need to be wider to drivers right. That way instead of trying to fight it off the outside curb and run back into 6 you can apex it a little later and then setup for 6, 7, 8.

[D_Eclipse9916]

A couple laps in traffic until a red MR2 decides to spray some fluids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

My fastest lap. Approximately 1:32. Reading taken from camera. Far from accurate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

Still learning so would love some feedback. I know I'm not hitting some of the apexes as cleanly as I should. Aside from that, would love to get your input.

Your braking too much....everwhere. With a miata at Summit you shouldnt be braking much, certainly nowhere between 1-5. Also your "turning" too much in 3 and 4 especially. Road racing you need to smooth it out a bit more than autocrossing. Is this on your slicks or street tires? You definitely need moar agressive braking deep into turn 1 and 5. Not bad for your first time on summit tho, looks like your having fun.

[phranquelynn]

A couple laps in traffic until a red MR2 decides to spray some fluids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

My fastest lap. Approximately 1:32. Reading taken from camera. Far from accurate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGd0zNgnVdo

Still learning so would love some feedback. I know I'm not hitting some of the apexes as cleanly as I should. Aside from that, would love to get your input.

Your braking too much....everwhere. With a miata at Summit you shouldnt be braking much, certainly nowhere between 1-5. Also your "turning" too much in 3 and 4 especially. Road racing you need to smooth it out a bit more than autocrossing. Is this on your slicks or street tires? You definitely need moar agressive braking deep into turn 1 and 5. Not bad for your first time on summit tho, looks like your having fun.

running on older RA1s. yeah, i know i'm braking more than i should. didn't know it was a lot. good to know. i'm scared. lol

this is me at the long straight from 10 to 1
after passing pit out
thinking about braking
glancing up to see tire wall at end of straight
back concentrating
looking at markers to wonder if i should brake
starting to brake
waiting for the brakes to slow me down
making it through the turn
repeat process

between 1 and 5, i'm lightly braking at 3 and lifting before 4. hard brake before 5. you really think i can make it through 1-5 without brakes at all? not that i'm going to try anytime soon (see above). but good to know where i should aim for.

when you say turning too much in 3 and 4. i need to turn earlier to straighten it out?

yeah, i've been told by every instructor that i need to smooth things out. good to hear it again though.

it was my second time at summit. yeap, definitely having fun!

[DaveL20]

The Miata is all about momentum as you know.

I would say you could get into 3 much harder. 3 is an uphill turn so you will naturally lose speed. In the Focus I start braking at about the road and am back to the gas hard mid corner. I would say in the Miata (less power) you should be able to run farther up the hill before braking. Not hard braking but kind of enough to set the nose then back to the gas. I have seen too many cars in the tire walls in 4 to not brake through there.

In watching the video again you do need to be farther to the right through 4. Closer to the gator. I actual hit it from time to time.

Definate get farther right into 5 and late apex it a little bit. When you apex it as early as you are it is harder to get to the gas through the corner and up the hill to 6. I am by no means an expert but just in watching and running the 8 - 10 times I have been there that is what I have been told and experienced.